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Vstefans, gabapentin is used in larger doses (titrated up) for pain. IAs previously stated, after major back surgery, I was on 2700 a day. Plus Percocet. Plus a muscle relaxer. I was a mess!
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Key words there are "titrated up" - not just started at that kind of dosage - and honestly, even for a good-sized adult, I start thinking about trying to get Lyrica (pregabalin) or switching to Cymbalta before getting to 2500-3000 mg a day if it is not really keeping that fire put out. SO many people respond really well with under a gram a day - some even to 100 and 200 mg doses that it just seems bad to start that high.
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While researching what I now believe is my mother's adverse reaction to the doubling of her heart med, Diltiazem while she was in the snf, I found this, which I thought belonged here, espcially the last line:


Beers Criteria

Developed by an expert consensus panel, the Beers criteria is a list of potentially inappropriate medications for the elderly. The criteria have been revised several times to remain current. Using the Beers criteria, the 1996 Medical Expenditure Panel Survey found that 20% of 2,455 community-dwelling elderly persons in the United States were using at least one inappropriate drug. The survey data found even higher risks of hospitalization and death from inappropriately prescribed drugs among nursing home patients.
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My mil was just placed on hospice and the first thing they did was start giving her morphine. She has no pain. She has interstitial lung disease, its aggressive, no cure and she has lost most of her lung function. Do I believe they are trying to kill her? Of course not. But she is dying and I know the morphine will hasten her death by giving her a little push over the edge. Its the humane thing to do imo. She's dying and it would be a much longer, drawn out, difficult process without the help of the morphine.
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I think as a family member we're in denial that its there time and they have accepted it, what you don't understand is they need he was in extreme pain and without that medication he would have been suffering so just Thank God that you had compassionate people in his midst in the end!
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My sister died in January of this year from glioblatstoma (brain cancer). She was in a hospice facility. When she died I felt like hospice hastened her death. She went there on a Sunday night, fully conscious, but very confused. The doctors told us the only thing keeping her alive were the steroids. They also said she had two weeks at the most. They started her on morphine and Ativan and that was the last time she was responsive. After much research and going over her medical reports I feel hospice did what was right to keep her comfortable and free of pain. I think without hospice she would have died a very painful death.
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Dont agree with any of the above. You have to much guilt- it is not our choice when someone should go- they go much quicker and sooner when someone tells them they are dying- we were told my husband had two months to live and decided not to tell him with bone cancer this is nine years later. Morphine and methadone etc are awful- we went natural cranberry juice for infection cannabis for pain- cannabis is not marijuana- and he is free of horrible pain. Everyone wants to live no matter how sick they are - hospice just as soon shove bad meds on sick people and make them worse- chemo and radiation are horrible- people need to wake up- other countries dont even allow chemo- its a money maker. My husband is still sick but happy for family
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My sister didn't know she was dying. She didn't even know who we were. Her entire brain was swelling bc of the cancer. She was having seizures. Glioblatstoma is terminal. We lost my sister pretty much after her second surgery. I don't think hospice hastened it, I think they kept her pain free. It was her time. It has taken me from the time she died until now to get over the guilt and blaming hospice.
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debbie glad you are feeling better there are good hoslice and bad hospice- you have no reason to feel guilty- but in nine years I have had quite a few hospice workers.- they all sound alike- as long as you do what they say they are fine but dont cross them- they use my bathroom without permission and think they own your house because they take care of your aging person and are very lazy- just sit talk and smile at you and make money- si I have a different experience then you and am glad they treated her right
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Ok here goes my story now. I just lost my 101 year old dad last night. I was destroyed. I am an RN and Paramedic and questioned why they were giving my dad 2 mg. of adivan. They told me he was agitated but 3 days before that he was doing fine. Not eating alo but soup, ensure, chocolate milk. When I came to see him as usual on Wednesday he was totally out of it. Did not know I was there slept for the whole 9 hours I stayed and the hospice nurse said oh its the adivan and he will be OK tomorrow. Well guess what???????? He was NOT OK tomorrow and the nurse that took over wanted to give him low dose of morphine. I flipped out and said that will decrease his respiratory system. I was so pissed I left at 9:30pm. At 9:50 pm I got a call he had passed. I am now in the process of getting his medical records. And I do not give a dam if they like me or not. This was my dad not theirs. Perhaps it was his age but he did NOT have cancer!
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Blond, I'm so sorry for your loss. Certainly you are right to look at the medical records; it may give you answers as to why your dad was on Hospice. Years ago, Hospice was for cancer patients. These days, a patient can get hospice care if their doctor certifies that they have six months to live. Who signed for your father to get Hospice care?
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blondmedicdoglv I am so sorry for your father. That really upsets me how this can even be allowed to happen. I would start off with having the coroner do an investigation and autopsy. If everyone did an investigation that lost their loved one in a suspicious way then maybe we could stop this from happening or slow it down. You can talk to the department of heath and put in a complaint . The medical board, the nursing board, joint commissions http://www.jointcommission.org/report_a_complaint.aspx and there are others also that you can complain about it.
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I just started proceedings to get in home hospice for my mom. I live with her. The first thing I told them is I contrl what and how much medication she gets. Right now, she is taking no pain meds at all, and sleeps most of the day. And I will get it in writing or no deal.
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horselady21, My husband died after 5 weeks of hospice in our home. I controlled what and how much medication he got. There was no issue with that at all. He had no morphine at all because he had no pain. I did give him the anxiety med a few times. There were a couple of meds we had stopped that I had put back into his intake. If you are using in-home hospice, you are completely in charge of the meds.
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blondmedicdoglv, I am so sorry for your loss. No matter what age our parents reach, it is too soon for them to go.

Your father was doing fairly well within a few days of his death. I think it is a blessing to go so quickly, rather than a long lingering period of the body shutting down. My husband ate scrambled eggs with cheese and salsa the morning he died. He was alert that day. He died while I was reading to him. I was very grateful that when it came, death came quickly.

Again, my condolences. I hope that looking at the medical records will provide the answers you need.
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I want to thank those who have sent their sympathy to me. I have contacted a local TV news station where I live to see if they would do a story and I got a call this morning they might be interested and am waiting to hear back. My dad thank the Lord never suffered and went very very peacefully but the absence of the physical is heartwrenching. I do know however that he is now with my mom and stepdad and my dogs and his folks and all his friends having a ball. It is we who are left behind that suffer the loss. BUT we are all fatal and one day we will meet up with everyone again. So the way I see it now is loss is devastating but the future is bright like the love of GOD who allows us to be reunited again. Thanks to you all again. LL
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blondemedic...I am so sorry for your loss. seeing your most recent post I do believe as you, that they are now reunited. My Daddy has passed but I am blessed to have Mama with me right now...she is very very frail and has begun talking to people who aren't there. It frightens me somewhat because I have lost a lot of aunts, uncles and grandparents and all of them began to see others "on the other side" and talk to them shortly before their passing. It is frightening and yet it is comforting because I know when she leaves me here, someone is waiting to welcome her home...and she will be well. Last night, I had taken a nap next to her and I woke up to hear her talking to someone. I just stayed quiet and listened. She was talking to one of her beloved cats, who passed about two years ago...I finally asked her was she dreaming and she said, "No, he's right there" and pointed beside her on the bed. I have always believed our beloved pets go to heaven too..and that just confirms it for me. Mama is happy...She seems calm and at peace. As hard as it is, I am trying to remember it is as it is in life.and we are all going to go down that path...Again, I am sorry for your loss...but we have a bright future in God's promise....
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HOPE, NEURONTIN / Gabapentin is not a new medication. Was first used for epilepsy.
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I take 1200 mgs of Gabapentin at night. Thankfully it stopped those dreaded Restless Legs. Worst feeling in the world!! It also helps me sleep a bit better.
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Really do not understand the high doses of medication, especially Gabapentin, especially for an otherwise functioning adult (not talking hospice, what about the meds caregivers are taking?), add that to other meds, and even then, if one adds alcohol ever to that mix, what is the plan for these hurting people? Not judging here, just offering a wise warning so that a second opinion might help with reducing the meds overall. I understand that some people require more meds for their conditions, and I am sympathetic. Just worry about those who don't know to question their doctor. With today's internet, we can find oug almost anything, do this for ourselves, not just for those we are caring for. Please.
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Apologies in advance. Above post meant for everyone, not directed at immediate poster. The posts get out of order anyway.
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My condolences to all the folks here who have lost loved ones. I know how difficult it is. I went through the sudden deaths of my only siblings not long ago.

I do volunteer work for a non profit organization. I've had two patients pass way this month. I am not a medically trained person so I cannot disscus or debate care and meds. I simply do companionship and respite care visits.

I haven't contributed to this thread for a long time, but I started reading some of the more recent stories and comments today. My comments are not meant to criticize, but simply to add to the discussion.

What has been discussed very little on this thread (over 400 posts) is quality of life issues. There are many cases where terminally ill patients of sound mind choose to go into hospice. I have a patient currently like this. They have decided that the quality of life is not, or will not be worth continued treatments, tests and procedures and choose to face death on their own terms. I truly hope I am able to do this when I'm old and I'll.

For people who are not able to make their own decisions any longer, hospice is chosen for them by family, friends in conjunction with doctors and hopice organizations. When we make these decisions we are trying to do what's best to end the suffering of our loved ones. We are treating them the way we would want to be treated in the end. Many people have given us clear directives.

No one, or their families, are forced or coerced into accepting hospice. I don't second guess or question the validity of those who report bad experiences with hospice. But I feel there should be more thought and discussion given to quality of life issues. How much can it possibly matter that someone who is 98 or 103 years old have there life extended by a few hours or days? We should ask at that point, who are we fighting for? Our loved one who is dying or for the emotional needs of those still living.
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I knew that the sedatives that they killed my mom with were wrong and so did the medical staff but they did not care cause they get away with it over and over again as people die from it. She told them she could not take the meds and so did I. It was written in her chart.There were times that I was standing in between my mom and the nurse that was medicating her. They told me that I was interfering with her healthcare and they were going to call the security. There was absolutely no reason at all for her to have sedatives.
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losing my temper when silly habits are formed by the sick one have a 40 year old handicapped son who is hard of hearing and a husband with 4th stage cancer- any suggestion for keeping my temper down please dont tell me to take a break because I cnat right now and he does not want others caring for him and I understand that- so much meds are making him sloppy and dont care attitude- any ideas?
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The topic question really caught my eye. I cared for my Dad who had prostate cancer and dementia for six years. I was his health care surrogate. He eventually went into hospice - for a year! He was a very strong man, even for his age of 96. The hospice physician was a general MD who had his own private practice, and also did hospice work. He was completely sold on using haldol (haliperodol) for the elderly patients to keep them calm. After seeing my father under the influence of this medication, I was so concerned. He didn't even know I was there. He was so obviously over-medicated. He went from being able to feed himself, carry on conversation, being alert...to someone who couldn't speak, move on his own, let alone feed himself, etc. He was completely doped up. (As were the other patients I saw in the unit). When I expressed my concern over this, they just told me he needed to be on it. I read up on the drug, and most nursing homes never use this anymore. One of the dangers of the drug is NOT to give to the elderly, and can cause DEATH! My Dad was in the hospice in-patient care unit (for my respite). I requested he no longer be given this medicine, as there were other medications that would help (and did help) restlessness.
Well, my last respite - Dad was brought into the unit. He was in good spirits, coherent, fed himself before going in, talked to me, etc. The staff was told by me and was noted in his file - NO HALDOL! Well, when my dad was brought back home after a few days, he was slumped over, could not talk, could not grasp a cup, could not open his eyes. When he heard me talk and knew he was home, tears started rolling down his face. I knew he was trying to talk to me. But he couldn't. I found out they were giving him haldol the whole time he was at the unit. He died that evening. So hard to believe that it will be a year October 15th that he died. His hospice nurse took a month leave from her job, and entered a facility for stress. She knew it was the haldol, but did not want me to think it was. It wasn't her fault. The doctor's, yes. While dad was dying, I know the critical care nurse expedited his death with morphine, and "turning him over". But in that case, it was merciful. It's the medications that some doctors don't want to educate themselves on, or learn about alternatives.
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boy do I feel your pain my husband will be on his last morphine tomorrow- then very slowly off of methadone which is a horrible drug- he has already started on medical cannabis which is not marijuana it has c-e-d and special oils which has been used in other countrys for years and he is having way less pain but still withdrawls from the morphine- and now off mirralax and synnacot etc the magnesium is great for constipation but citrate magnesium is best from costco anybody out there just remember my husband has lived 9 years longer then they said because we refused chemo and radiation- dont let any dr or nurse push you around or think they own your home cause you are on hospice
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My mom was in a coma when she passed from so much haldol and ativan and other sedatives that she was not supposed to have not only because of her age but because of a sensitivity to these drugs that kill people with this condition. It was determined through medical investigations that she was given enough of these sedatives to cause great bodily harm and death. These overdoses were done by medical staff who knew that she could not even have these drugs at all but yet gave her huge amounts of it.
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Windy, your insightful, heartfelt and well rationed post brings common sense and clarity to a very emotional issue.
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Yes I agree, they put my mom on hospice on 1 mg in the hospital and my mom was 71 and she was just mellow, and a lot of people visited that day, So she had said the day before I wish I had a big birthday party, So when everyone visited that day, I asked my mom how she liked her birthday party, ( although it wasn't her birthday ) She had this amazing look on her face and her eyes were sparkling even being under 1mg morphine and she staired at everybody with the biggest and happist smile I have seen in a long time, She was so happy and laughed with us So when i asked her how she liked her birthday party, She just glowed and said I love it.lol but I didn't get any cake i said o wait heres your cake she had me put it aside Now she went from 1 mg. Of morphine to 3, we all asked if we could talk to her they said yes, but she won't be able to respond i asked Why didn't they tell me as for I stayed the whole time she was there they gave us a bed to sleep there, and I was in charge of her So next thing i know they put it up to I believe 8 mg all this was in a matter of days, when administraighter said they could of prolong her stay month by month So yes I do think they rushed her death... Never told me they upped it to 3 and wouldn't be able to talk or say our last words to her and then again to 8mg.That put me at a low point, because they always upped it while I ran down stairs when all i did was ran to get her foods she wanted. I have distrust and lots of anger towards hospice, Sorry but Yes they did kill her faster tgen she could of hung in a little longer
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I'm so sorry Meow, This happens too much, You can call the coroner and ask for an investigation. You can talk to the department of heath and put in a complaint . The medical board, the nursing board, joint commissions http://www.jointcommission.org/report_a_complaint.aspx and there are others also that you can complain about it.
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