Did Hospice rush your loved ones death?

Excellent post, Countrymouse.

WSDS, in answer to your question, NO! It is Never OK, for someone to administer Any treatment to another person, without an order and Authorization from their Dr, and I am quite sure, that giving IV solutions to Anyone who has now discontinued Lifesaving Dialysis, is on Hospice, and not expected to improve is Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!

First off, because he isn't licensed to administer meds or even IV saline solution to his own father is illegal! Secondly, giving and even forcing IV fluids to him, when his damaged kidneys are no longer working is just plain cruel, because his kidneys aren't working to capacity, he cannot process the fluids, which is why they are giving him only limited fluids by mouth or even food, as his poor body cannot process very much.

As mentioned above, I would most definitely report your Nephew to the Hospice Nurse and Dr, and sadly, he might well be banned from being alone in the same room as him, or worse, banned altogether, and hopefully not reported to the police!

As for him being asleep, or out of it, this is to be expected, being that his kidneys Are shutting down, the chemical buildup of BUN & CREATININE from his failing kidneys, do make the patient extremely sleepy and loopy if conscious, and even make them feel euphoric.  The small amounts of Narcotics,  are not enough to put a healthy person asleep, but a very ill person, may very likely be deeply asleep. However,  the Narcotics will not hasten his death, but keep him comfortably in his decline. 

The reason I know this as it happened to my own Mom, while on Hospice, and actively dying. The Dr's explained that when the body is shutting down, and the organs are no longer working properly, and it becomes dificult and even painful for them to process food and fluids, and it's best to discontinue them.

Yes, they are often unconscious, but it's much better than bring awake and uncomfortable, or in pain. Still, they may be just "under the surface", and still able to hear you, so talk to him, play music during your visits, enjoy conversationsome with others in his presence, as this too, may bring him comfort, just knowing that you are there!

It's terribly sad, that you are losing your Brother, and I am so sorry! Use this time to be near him, speaking to him, sharing and remembering all the wonderful things you enjoyed about your shared memories.

I'll be keeping you in my prayers!

This is very disturbing to me. As my mom died 12/23/15 in Hospice she was brought there. Granted she had stage 4 colon cancer and was 84. When I went to see her she seemed fine then when I went back a few days later as we had gone on a mini vac. our husband and I. She seemed unresponsive as if they gave her something (Morphine). They told me no. I'm bothered not that she died since I knew she couldn't live to much longer. But she was semi fine at home. I go over and over this in my mind for what reason I don't know. She's gone. AND the worst was I wasn't there to say goodbye I was at work when they called me. We were VERY close like sisters. Sorry this is short. I don't blame hospice I blame myself for not being there and or for going away but the fact was I was coming up on Xmas week which I was off for. Figuring I could be home with her. That was why we had her brought there for the short time.

It doesn't matter whether the soldier actually killed Saul or not. David thought that he did, by word of his own mouth, and did what was just in the case of murder. All of these things are examples to us. This man professed to have preformed a mercy killing on Saul, as he claimed Saul requested, and was executed for murder. Period.

I'm gathering from your position that you are for mercy killing and that you believe it is the right thing to do?

Tacy,
Where the question shows at top of this page there is a "Following+" label, select it and you will not be following it any longer.

My brother just passed away. He was fine until the hospice medicated him with morphine and other meds.

My brother just passed away. He was fine and talking until hospice gave him morphine and other meds. I wasnt his health proxy so his wife had the say.my brother became in a comatose state from the medicine and then died shortly after

Sometimes what happens is that a person is assigned Hospice Care very late in the timeline, so it feels like the person passed quickly.   Others place love ones into Hospice months ahead.

Please note that people who will be passing shortly sometimes get a short time frame where they appear to be improving... thus talking, eating, laughing, and everyone feels there has been this turn around in the person's heath.  This phase doesn't last long, then the patient goes into the next step.

Depending on the Hospice group used, some groups have a very informative notebook that explain all the steps involved, and what will happen when.   And there have been cases where a person had improved so much that they were taken off of Hospice and lived many more months or a year or two.

Just for a comparison....the night my father died...I mean just hours before he passed..... he was up and walking around, eat a big meal (like I have not seen him eat in a while) ... even had cake with strawberries for desert!

He was up during the night...talking and walking.

In the morning I found him cold..in bed.

I have seen a dramatic change in just hours. No morphine or hospice was involved.

Sometimes it just is what it is

Prolife,
I'm assuming you are asking me the question, since I debunked your "mercy killing" theory in the Bible. What's with pointing the finger about mercy killing anyway?
It is illegal and immoral in our society. There are some states in the U.S. and some countries that allow terminally ill people to end their own lives, but none that allow homicide.
We've gone over and over about the doses of Morphine, Ativan, nausea meds, etc. that hospice nurses give their patients. None of the quantities given comes anywhere near lethal doses.
I do not believe in mercy killing, I have never assisted or done that and never plan to. For me, I cannot do God's job. What I can do is relieve as much pain and suffering by administering medications and other pain relieving treatments. Now do you see the difference?

My sister is dying, and would do so no matter what. However, like Rosie's mother, she is being killed by the combination of Ativan and Morphine. She too was responsive, eating and drinking, some anxiety but no pain. The decision was not made by me to start the drugs. I had no problem with the use of Ativan when she became anxious, as I didn't want to see her that way. I had reservations with the switch to Morphine, especially as it started causing it's own anxiety. Then it was "strongly suggested" by Hospice to began giving her Ativan along with Morphine to "help calm her down." Ok, so the Ativan is now given to calm her down, so what is the Morphine for? A little research into Hospice practices has answered this question. It is routinely mixed together in spite of warnings from Web sites such as Mayo that state these drugs mixed cause coma and death. She went quickly from having especially good morning times where she enjoyed food and conversation, and looked forward daily for a Sonic Diet Dr Pepper to (in one day's time) inability to take any food at all and water only if dropped from a straw into her mouth. And of course her routine oral Morphine and Ativan. Rosie isn't wrong to say that her mother was able to eat and drink and talk to her until the advent of these drugs. There is a time and place for this, I certainly have no wish to see anyone suffer from pain. I do have a problem with Euthanasia, and this is plainly it.

My sister is dying, and would do so no matter what. However, like Rosie, she is being killed by the combination of Ativan and Morphine. She too was responsive, eating and drinking, some anxiety but no pain. The decision was not made by me to start the drugs. I had no problem with the use of Ativan when she became anxious, as I didn't want to see her that way. I had reservations with the switch to Morphine, especially as it started causing it's own anxiety. Then it was "strongly suggested" by Hospice to began giving her Ativan along with Morphine to "help calm her down." Ok, so the Ativan is now given to calm her down, so what is the Morphine for? A little research into Hospice practices has answered this question. It is routinely mixed together in spite of warnings from Web sites such as Mayo that state these drugs mixed cause coma and death. Rosie isn't wrong to say that her mother was able to eat and drink and talk to her until the advent of these drugs. There is a time and place for this, I certainly have no wish to see anyone suffer from pain. I do have a problem with Euthanasia, and this is plainly it.

I am looking for someone in my situation right now. Hospice is in my home taking care of my father, multiple stroke, and they give him morphine and ativan and no water or food for over 48 hours. I believe hospice is rushing death. Dad's doctor has been shut out since hospice came here. He didnt believe that my father was ready for hospice care. They have completely convinced my mother this is best. Right at this moment I want to call 911. Please anyone suggestions???

Barbaraywd, did the Hospice doctor declare that your Dad was ready for Hospice? If yes, then there has to be a very good reason.

The reason no food or water is given is because when the body starts to shut down prior to the start of morphine, the stomach can no longer process food or water. Or food/water is going into the lungs and that would be very painful for your Dad.

Please please note, your Dad's timetable for passing would be the same whether Hospice was there or not. With Hospice, you know your Dad is relatively pain free.

Barbaraywrd, My own FIL was a doc, and hated, absolutely hated, telling people they needed hospice. He talked about it like it was his personal failure. I suspect that is why dad's doc did not want to put him on hospice. I've also read about a study (in the book Being Mortal, I think) that says doctors who know their patients outside of the practice will wait 3 mos longer to put them on hospice. Again, that doctor's perceived personal failure to keep a friend alive.

My dad could not speak, swallow, or shuffle for a year after his several strokes and was trapped in his body by his wife who refused to "give up." If I had been in that situation, I would have preferred to be let go than to be miserably treated for a year with a ng tube down my nose, my diaper changed in front of my child, and all the other indignities of being incapacitated and unable to communicate. It is good that your dad is loved, but give him peace and permission to leave.

Thank you for posting this. My father had late stage IV lung cancer and we were all in denial, thinking chemo could actually cure him. We knew better, but we all had to hold out hope with him and get him the best care possible. He transferred to a reputable hospital near our home and stayed with us for 6 months during treatment. The chemo was "working" on the tumors, but by no means was he getting better. By all visual accounts, he was worsening. I know now, looking back, he developed a malignant pleural effusion (complicated pnemonia) which was simply another form of metastasis. At that point, if there was any chance of a recovery, the pnemonia make a sharp left turn and life expectancy in that circumstance was 3 months. I don't ever remember a doctor telling us that. We kept hearing the "tumors are shrinking." I'm sure there were things doctors told him at his appointments that never were conveyed back to me. We did everything we could to provide a loving environment for him, and he wanted to hold out hope and fight to the end. He was unwilling to succumb to the disease and admit he was dying. That said, we never involved hospice. He was not on any pain management program because he didn't like injecting medications, and he hid his pain levels from us all. He never complained. He was full of life and vigor until the very end. We didn't know what was happening except he was dying of cancer. He was in my home and having hallucinations, hadn't eaten in a week, couldn't get out of bed. I felt the end was near, but I didn't know how near. What I just wrote makes it obvious, but living it, I didn't know. I just wanted him to feel peace. I spent two days with him, talking with him and listening to him tell me about his experiences. He was already slipping into a delirium and I didn't know it. I looked up "end of life symptoms" and he hit the mark on most of them. But we were all in such denial. The third day, he went to the hospital for an appointment and was immediately taken into ER. He was admitted on a Monday and passed that Friday. His lung was partially collapsed and they couldn't do anything to fix it. Learning that knowledge seemed to throw him into what ended up being terminal delirium. From Tuesday until Wednesday he didn't have proper pain medicine prescribed because no one seemed to be able to identify the hysteria. It was an absolutely crazy 36-hour window. I hope people understand by my story that NO pain management in terminal disease resulted in terminal hysteria the last week of my father's life. His body had been processing out for many weeks already, if not longer. Two days before he passed, palliative care finally got involved (no idea why it took them two days to get to the case), and Atavan and morphine began. I know I kept asking the nurses what they were giving him, and after they'd answer, I'd say, "Well, it's not strong enough." We were all in such a daze. By that Wednesday he was in restraints and had suffered the delirum long enough. The Atavan and morphine calmed him. He was clearly "high," but he was in the dying process and no longer in dire pain and misery. My last spoken words to him were on the Thursday morning when I arrived to visit. Clearly "high," but no longer crazed, I said, "Good morning, Dad. How are you feeling today? I know yesterday was rough, but how are you today?" And he looked right at me and said, "I feel much better today."
He went into semi-unconsciousness that afternoon and complete unconsciousness that night. He passed the next afternoon. I know we did everything we knew to do. I know I couldn't watch him suffer anymore. I also questioned whether the morphine hastened his death. But what I want to share after all of this is that death was in process already. To withhold the morphine would have kept him in pain and worsening delirium. Though I questioned if it slowed his breathing, the truth is, the death process was already irreversible. I thank the nurses for keeping him comforted in the final hours of his life. To understand, the death process of someone with disease doesn't happen in a day or two (unless an acute occurrence like an embolysm or stroke or heart attack).... the body starts shutting down over a period of weeks. Nothing was going to stop his death, so I'm glad he was comforted after 6 excruciating months of cancer treatment. And who knows how long before that he had it and lived with the pain before he was diagnosed. I am thankful the medication was available. Please don't second guess your choices with loved ones. They know you did your best. You have to know you did your best, too, with the knowledge you had. Thank you for posting this. I was concerned, too, tonight that our decisions hastened death. But after reading all of the responses, I know that is a response to the grief I am feeling tonight. I miss my dad. I miss him and cry a little every day. But I know death was imminent and we did our very best. May you find peace. May you know that your loved one understands you did your best, and they are at peace. God Bless you.

Sachigirl, that was the most beautiful post, and brought me to tears. It must have been very difficult to relive.
Your father was a wonderful person in the way he selflessly bore his illness and pain. he deserved his peace. May you find comfort.

Yes my experience was that my mom was put in hospice right in the hospital and died within hours when put on a morphine drip. She was not in pain so I do not know why they insisted on the morphine. When I questioned the doctor he told me he had not killed anyone yet. I wish I had known what I know now, I would have not permitted it. It is something I have not come to terms with yet. It's turning out to be that mom had a prion desease which is terminal anyway, but she was in a semi coma and not in pain when they just decided to end her life since there is no cure for her illness. Hospice might be good for certain cases but not others. I am so sorry I learned the hard way!

Flymom, a persons timetable for death would have been the same with or without Hospice.

The doctors and nurses can tell if someone is in pain where us, the non-medical people, are not familiar with the signs, especially if one is semi-alert [due to prion disease, a disease that is rare].

My Mom was on Hospice and I was glad she was given this care. Her dementia wasn't causing her major pain, her back was from lying in bed as she could no longer sit up, and being oh so painfully thin.

Please note there is little data to support the belief that appropriate use of opioids hastens death in patients.

My father died a month ago at a rehab facility in Massachusetts. I strongly believe that my father was the victim of arrogance by a misguided rogue nurse practitioner who has her own philosophies about death and when it is time for someone to go. I believe he was killed by this facility. I was asked to approve morphine and ativan for him, when he was not in pain and not suffering, which I now know stops the breathing, but was not informed about at the time. I was also told by the nurse practitioner that they cancelled hospice and were going to quote "do it" with medication! I was primed to believe my father was dying when he was not. The health care proxy was invoked (removing his rights) the day after the nurse practitioner told me she had a conversation with my dad and he was completely lucid, and there are others who said the same thing! All this was against the backdrop of my father saying that he wanted to live! Also very troubling is that they did eventually call in hospice and when I called the hospice and said that I did not agree with what was going on, but would like to be included in the support and bereavement services they hung up on me!

My research has led me to understand that this is a widespread problem. This research includes my research online as well as to talking friends, including several doctor friends, who said this stealth euthanasia is a deeply troubling trend that is going on. So there is the rogue nurse practitioner issue as well is the hospice issue here. As you may know recently an indictment came down on 16 people running a hospice in Texas that was also overdosing patients resulting in death or serious harm. http://www.dallasnews.com/news/frisco/2017/02/28/frisco-man-15-others-indicted-medicare-hospice-scheme-used-human-life-vulnerable-stage

I don't understand why the national media is not covering this very troubling trend. I feel it is so important to make the public aware of what is going on which I believe is a sub-level of something in a gray area. I believe it is going on with the hopes that it will just become accepted into the main stream. It is stealth euthanasia. Forewarned is forearmed and I would have given anything if someone had made me aware before my father was in this situation as at that point I was too distraught to research or stand up to this bully nurse practitioner. Whether someone has 2 weeks, 6 months or two years to live no one has the right to take that away from them and hasten their death. It is more time they have to spend however they choose. They have not only destroyed my father by killing him, but they have left me deeply troubled by the whole horrendous act. Losing a loved one is hard enough, but under these conditions it is unbearable. We cannot stand for these killings

All, i am still having issues with the grief. I keep trying to think what i could have done differently. My life changed drastically last year when my mom had a stroke, 9/25/2016. She came through the stroke and had initially made progress, then she started to not participate, was discharged from one facility came home for three days and then to another because she could not take care of her self. she spent 2 months there only to be forced out, home 7 days and then hospitalized for kidney issues, home a week back in the hospital, diagnose as failure to thrive December 26, home on December 27 accepted into hospice care Jan2, 2017 and she passed on Jan23. I was there to take care of her and i was there when she took her last breath. It did not seem so peaceful, she was struggling to breathe, she was rattling and moaning. I can't get the image out of my head.

I struggle to sleep, i keep asking myself what i could i have done differently.

I appreciate the hospice nurses and the aides. I feel, heck i don't know what i feel.

I am struggling here. I have mixed emotions and I have no where to turn.

Today I was reading what you have post and regards to your father's rushing his death. I am also experiencing the same thing with her mother I am also experiencing the same thing with my mother. I have my mom hospitalized and some doctor gave my mom two doses of morphine and was giving Ativan and also and now my mother is unresponsive. IT's like she's in a coma state and there's nothing I can do about it. BUT just wait until she passed.

Corydee,

My mother passed three weeks ago. The morphine is for pain and the Ativan for anxiety.

It's so difficult at this stage.

Yes, they are comatose because they are dying with or without the drugs.

I'd prefer my loved one be pain free.

Oh I'm not alone. My best friend at age 55 went into hospice. The day she arrived she was happy and talking, I never got to speak to her again. They continued to increase her morphine with out discussing it with me even though I had power of attorney. I still cry daily even though it's now been over one year. My bright and beautiful best friend was never able to speak to me again. I feel guilty that I didn't stop that place from killing her.
Thank you,
One lost friend

Jill1lostsoul, sorry for your lost. Your friend would have died on the same time table with or with Hospice. With Hospice you know she didn't die in any horrible pain, and that in itself should be comforting.

And it is not unusual just before a person starts that final journey to rebound, be talkative, happy, eating, and even wanting to walk. That's nature's way of letting everyone say their good-byes. That has happen to many of us with our love ones.

Interesting freqflyer! I have heard from many people about the final rebound. In 2013 it happened to our yellow lab who was 14 years old. Weeks before her death she could not walk eat or drink. Gave her water with an eye dropper. Lost tons of weight. Two days before she died she suddenly got up when my husband came home from work and asked to go for a walk. We immediately took her and she walked the long way (she knew where she wanted to go) for over 50 minutes. She still looked terrible and did not use the bathroom (because there was nothing in her system). She seemed to want to see everything that she had experienced since god gave her to us since she was 10 weeks old. We found it strange. She lead us back home and collapsed and never walked again. She died in less than 48 hours. She was seeing eye dog material but too smart to become one.

I don't know if this is going to work or not but I'd like to say a little something I also have grief from my mothers passing she was given the morphine at the nursing home I asked my sisters not to do this but I was overruled. I often wonder if we It made it faster . For her to die. I want to thank everyone who made the comment about their love ones for me to read on here. Different views from everyone makes it easier for others to understand. I love my mother with all my heart and I wish she was here this Mother's Day. But she's with God. Happy Mother's Day mama

As I read all the comments about Hospice and loved ones, it breaks me down with such sadness and madness. There are so many unknowns and a whirlwind of fast decisions. Hospice was comforting, but this one nurse I had to tell her I felt as if she was rushing my moms death. I received a call while I was in route to see my mother and was told to hurry up because she probably would not make it through the evening. I cried, panicked and drove like a mad woman on a mission. After about 30 minuets of driving about 80 plus miles an hour, a calmness came over me and said it will not be tonight, they do not know. When I arrived the hospice nurse approached me as I entered my mother's room, I was overwhelmed with fear and anger. The nurse seemed exited about death. This startled me and it made me angry, I shared my thoughts with her and I stopped talking to her. She came to me apologizing with concern. This only confused me to no end. I have so much to say, but not certain if my voice would be heard. Morphine is deadly. I, like many of you, did not know how deadly this medicine can be. I voiced my concerns about the dosages, but I felt I was not heard until I said this is not working for us, I need to pull her off Hospice. Mama's breathing changed, she was slipping and I did not want her to suffer. I knew she was going to leave us, but I did not think this soon. I think those concoctions speed up God's plans. I feel like screaming to the top of any mountain top to relieve my pain, but I know it will not go away. My mom had so many conditions going against her that it literally broke my heart and I do not think it can be repaired. I am not done with my comments, but to emotionally to complete them today.

Jones27, so sorry for the passing of your Mom.

Yes, morphine can be deadly if misused, like using over 200mg in each dosage. No Hospice Doctor would ever script for such a high dosage.

Hospice only uses 5mg to 15mg for each dosage, which is a safe amount. Probably no different that what hospital patients get after having major surgery. using a morphine pump to help control the pain.