Did Hospice rush your loved ones death?

Several times when my parents were in the hospital, we took turns being with them. We learned how important this is. There were times there was no cup. We would ask the attending nurse for one with water. Sometimes they bring a papercup and a pitcher of water. Usually, they will direct us to a separate room that has the paper cups, ice machine, even a vending machine. We also requested for those foam brushes to wet the lips with the water. We went through those too fast. I remembered going to the drugstore down the road and buying some. I think it was a quarter each. When mom needed turning, we just did it ourselves (when there was 2 of us) or reminded the nurse if we were by ourselves. We always asked the nurses if we can help. They were very grateful when they did accept our offer. Yes, it’s their job, but they have other patients, too. And in the end, it’s not about whose job it is - but the comfort of our parent.

Thinker1, one has to realize that when Hospice is called in, it is usually in the final week or two of a person's life. That person would have passed if Hospice was there for not.

It is a decision does the love one pass with peace and dignity, or thrashing about in unbearable pain. Which would you choose to do or what to remember of your love ones final hours?

PamB, please note when a patient is in the journey of their body shutting down, they CANNOT take water or food, it would be too painful for them because the stomach is no longer processing food/water, or the food/water would go directly into the person's lungs. 

PamB, here's a different way of viewing hospice services provided in a hospital.

The patient is already dying; why would anyone want to move someone in that condition to another facility? The EMS ride, the change in surroundings, the anxiety of going to an unfamiliar place - why put anyone through that?

My sister was in a hospital during her last week of life; when it became clear that she wouldn't recover, one of the doctors told us that they had a small hospice wing where she could be transferred, just the other side of the floor she was on.

We were so relieved that she could remain where she was without the ordeal of being moved, and she was relieved as well. The room was cozy and private, with a lounge next door for relief when we needed it.

I wish people would stop finding so much fault with hospice and think about how much it relieves people from lingering and suffering a slow, agonizing death.

As the doctor associated with our hospice told me "Hospice is rough business." Pretty strong words from a man on the payroll. But true.

My Dad was put on hospice when the medical community ran out of ideas. It was viewed as "palliative", and not necessarily "end of life"--but end of "valuable life" as viewed by society.

As the six months drew to a close, hospice dug their heels in and brought him to the end. No one in my family believed he wouldnt be around for Christmas--or NEXT Christmas. He had Parkinson's.

His death was systematic and ugly, ungraceful and uncaring. I will make it my mission to stop willowtreehospice from ruining more lives.

Those of you who sing the praises of hospice should count yourselves fortunate. I am certain that not all hospice is bad or wrongheaded or fraudulent, but willowtreehospice sure is.

I have said this before and again ---I have seen many people die on regular hospital floors and they got fluids in the veins and if they could eat they got food and they were turned and got bathed and not overdosed with mso4 or Ativan. In other words the promotion of life until God calls them home. Nobody but Our Lord knows when they are to go. Hospice kills and thou shall not kill. This is not some new loving organization that just popped up a few decades ago. As if they are so great. We've had people dying for thousands of years that had no hospice and they did just fine so don't go trying to promote this stuff because it doesn't work on me. My Grandmother died on a regular hospital floor and she died very peacefully. I'm very glad she was not pushed to death without food or fluids and shrank up like a raisin! I've seen that on Hospice floors, too. You don't hold back IV fluids. My God man. That's cruel and it dehydrates the person!

Markmedsur1,and I am asking this politely. I believe you stated at one time you are a RN. Where did you go to nursing school and what degree did you obtain? I really am asking this respectfully, it would help me in understanding your posts.

I second your questions timbuktu.

How do you continue to "promote life", if your dying loved one On Hospice in your home can no longer drink from a cup, or suck from a straw? My FIL got to this point on the day before he passed away and my husband tried (in his scared and confused state), to drip a little water into his Dad's mouth, which only made him cough. It was at this point that I told my husband that this is the time that we continue to do everything possible to keep him comfortable, and swab his mouth with those little spongettes to keep his mouth moist. We continued to give him the liquid medications on a schedule, and he passed away comfortably the very next day.

There was going to be No IV fluids to prolong his life, as to do that would have been cruel, and not of the Hospice philosophy in the first place.

The dying process is difficult to watch, but we all die at some point, and it's our job, to make it as pain free and comfortable as we can make it.

My mother was on home hospice and I will always regret that decision. The agency promised me that mom would take all her regular heart meds. But when the hospice nurse arrived on her first visit, she went right to the box of narcotics and approached my mother with a syringe. My mother was lucid and was not complaining of pain. My mother, a retired RN, held up her hand and said, "NO." The nurse looked startled. After that experience, I made it clear that there would be no narcotics. Only her regular meds. Yet on my dear mother's last day on this earth, the hospice nurse rushed to her bedside and injected her with something. Why? She said my mother was agitated. What did my mother do? Well, the aide and I were changing her bed and mom said, "Please don't let me fall off the bed." She said it in her usual calm voice. Immediately thereafter, the hospice nurse rushed her bedside and injected her. I asked her why she did that and the nurse said it was because mom was agitated. Not so! Then minutes later, as my mother fell into a stupor, the nurse said, "your mother will probably die tonight." I told her that I could not believe it because she just ate ice cream. The nurse giggled and told me to go out and get a milkshake and celebrate. Yep, that's what she said! Celebrate! Mom never awoke and died that night.

PamB I am so sorry you had this kind of experience with hospice. My first experience with hospice was 17 yrs. ago with my dad who was dying from leukemia. There were few treatments at the time for the kind of leukemia he had and he had come to the point where his quality of life was being affected by the treatments that were not a cure but just basically kicking the can down the road because he was going to die, there was NO cure. Hospice helped me respect his wishes of not being in pain and to stay in his home with his books and dogs. His last night that he was conscious he was sitting in a chair,eating ice cream, watching tv, talking with my mom and husband, a pleasant evening and then he went to bed and never woke up, I suspect he had a intracranial bleed which with his type of leukemia was always a possibility. He was receiving oral morphine at the time. None of the hospice nurses giggled. If this is truly what happened to you, the nurse was extremely unprofessional and I hope you reported them to the corporate office and to their board of nursing of whichever state you were in. This is not the normal behavior of a hospice worker.Also if you as you say were present at your mom's bedside and told the nurse not to inject her and she did anyway, that is assault, you could have called the authorities. I just know I encountered none of this behavior with my hospice experience. I do agree not all hospice companies are equal. If you don't like their service, call your insurance co. that is paying them and complain and get another one.Educate yourself what hospice means. Traveling that last mile with a loved one ,knowing you can't cure them, that death comes to us all, this is the hardest journey.

BarbBrooklyn Thank you for your comments. It was the right thing to do taking mom off life support; her body could not fight the recurrence of Sepsis like it had before. It was God's will to bring her home. The ICU head did not even mention her being on Hospice. I found this out after the insurance statements came in.

Yes, I did ask for one more day to see if her condition would improve, and can understand the doctor still seeing her and billing for the visit, but the GI doc. She was off of the feeding tube. There was no need for him to visit her, yet he did and of course billed for his services.

What I meant in the last statement, the Hospital did not list the discharge as death, so they sent this survey about how they did. It was marked, Deceased, don't contact her again and return to sender. I also called and made sure that she would not receive any more mailings from them. It was upsetting that they did this after she had passed.

SueC1957

Thank you for your comments as well. Thankfully she had 3 insurances that paid for the bulk of the charges with only a few asking for the coinsurance. I read about cyanosis, which is why seeing the blue in her fingertips I made the decision regarding life support.

The doctor was not even her primary care, but the NH doc. She never saw or heard from her primary care doc the whole time. Ironically, she could have seen her since the Hospital claimed NH doctor care would end if she was not in the NH and her care would revert back to her primary care doctor.

Anyway, it is over and she is at peace and in a better place.

Ironically, since she has passed, the NH she was at and the hospital she was at has had a lot of turnover, and even one of the nurses at the hospital was let go and probably charged after using drugs.

Yes absolutely! These people Kill. My mother who went into a respite care center was horrified at the treatment that she received, when the night nurse physically and emotionally abused her. I brushed it off,in a sense that my mother could get under your skin , but she truly was afraid. I am now investigating other circumstances and I am most certain they did do these horrific things to her. They actually killed her with an overdose of the heroin based medicine that they administered right before my eyes. A male nurse whom Ive never seen before comes into her room, we were there staying overnight as we had previously, and gives her the medication and she passed 30 seconds after the dose. I knew in my heart, as I reflect, that he killed her but after all she had been through, it seemed like a blessing. But after hearing about certain end of life care stories I really and Truly believe they purposefully killed her with a lethal dose of the opium based medicine. They are saying they give respite care but they actually are in the death business and I believe they truly Love and get off with the grief of the emotions of the family, the patient and the misery it all brings. Evil, Satanic, Luciferian practices I believe they are. Unfortunately it is after the fact, but yes they are in the business of Death, and they do control the patients death. Amen.

Well They should inform the family in full detail what's happinin next because I left for a hour and my mom WAS BRAIN DEAD IT WAS SICK SHE JUST STARED AT ME AS THE NURSES KEPT SAYING SHES DIEING 5 DAYS OF WATCHING HER BREATH TO SEE IF SHE WAS DEAD I FREAKED OUT ... I SCREAMED SOMEONE GIVE HER SOME WATER YPUR KILLING HER IT WAS SICK ...

So if you're not even sure if your mom is breathing, that would be the time to give her water??? You can find out if she's breathing when she aspirates it and chokes, I guess.

It seems to me this thread is fully hijacked by lunatics. No one wants to talk about their anti-Hospice position in a productive way, multiple 1 comment accounts dropping off super dramatic posts about Hospice killing their loved one...

Sorry, all. I've unfollowed this thread, will do it again.  Just happened to see the last couple of posts and I'm in a mood.  

Alison I am in a mood too every time I read one of these posts.. Killing someone in 30 seconds I don't think so. It takes longer than that to kill a horse with a lethal injection when the animal is being euthanized.
Bad things may have happened in that rehab center I don't doubt that but killing someone in 30 seconds right in front of their family.
I did get yelled at in rehab the morning my infected wound burst and I refused to get dressed and go to the dining room. She said it was healing well and did not smell bad and I had to put my clothes on. Well I didn't and was back in the hospital in a few hours for revision surgery

What is interesting, and I have mentioned this before, those who are posting horror stories about Hospice have never been on this website forum until now. It is easy to check their past history of postings.

I get so tired of writing that the morphine given in Hospice is the same dosage as one would get after having major surgery. I've had two major surgeries, so I guess I am ghost writing.... [sigh].

Really wish the new writers would read some of the past 25 or more postings to gain a better understanding why certain things are done.... such as no food or water if the patient has an aspiration condition [which is common], or that the organs are shutting down so food would just lay in the stomach which would be painful.

Some times I feel we are being baited.

Once upon a time I was opposed to hospice getting involved. That was because of a pushy woman at the hospital really acting against my Moms wishes and pushing hospice hard on Mom and myself. Ghoulish is how I would have described the whole thing....and very nasty.

When it was clear (a year later) that there was no help for the pain that Mom was in, I told her primary doc that he needed to prescribe hospice for her.

I agree, there seems to be a lot of one off posting here. Trolling.

Hospice was a very good thing for Mom. They were able to step in and control her pain. I am grateful. No one should die in agony.

Sometimes "feel we are being baited"? FF, I think you're right, as are others who have made observations about those posting the negative thoughts and what I would consider reactionary comments about hospice.

One thing is clear to me as well, that in some cases the proper questions weren't asked before hospice was brought in, during the dying process, and at the time of death.

It's easy to make accusations but harder to do so when someone takes the time to inform oneself of the process, meet with the staff, and understand what will happen.

And it's not atypical for someone to become emotional and accusatory if that person doesn't understand the dynamics of dying and the hospice role.

I still would ask these people why their loved ones were in hospice in the first place, and if prolonging a life of suffering, lack of consciousness and whatever degenerative issues existed at that time is something they would have preferred to happen.

I would agree the thread has been hijacked, but I would think perhaps by people who as I wrote haven't completely understood either the purpose of hospice or the dying process.

I also think it's time to close this thread to any further responses.

Yes please close this down. I'm tired of the few Dr Kevorkians who get off on death.

I love how when people don't like to hear what is being said..other experiences..opinions..view...they get defensive ...insulted..and want to shut a thread down...I have been reading this thread on and off for a bit now...having been taking care of a terminally ill sibling using home hospice...having him declared dead by a hospice nurse just shortly after giving him the deadly cocktail...and seeing his eyes..tense..with pin prick constricted pupils..and teeth..jaw clamped..looking intensely angry and in pain...frozen.the .hospice nurse declaring him dead...and then right after declaring him dead.. saying she has never seen a dead person before...as the funeral home comes to retrieve him....when a few hours prior he had been resting peacefully..cleaned up and resting..while the hospice nurse checking him gets a shrilly voice saying his eyes were just slightly  becoming jaundice as she flashes her iPhones light into his eyes....saying now they have to increase all meds..and need to the Lorazepam in increased amounts..(which he can only take in very minute amounts..adverse side affects) and increase the liquid morphine..on top the Fentanyl patch...etc..that he only has days left...etc..as if he can't hear a word she is saying..and sadly..he had said that evening to me that the meds were killing him....leaving me wondering..and asking..as was he just in a coma as they took him away? Or was he truly dead..by overdose and dehydration...and me..being so tired and with lack of sleep..not being attentive enough to stop their process.

...he declined so fast once accepting hospice and their meds..while he was still active prior.so.. yes...some hospices do intentionally..or unintentionally..rush your loved ones to death..through ignorance..lack of knowledge..or set in their protocols ..and med cocktails..without waiver...they can be very nice..or irritating...and you have to be attentive..some of the nurses that came were great..really wanted to help him..others..not so great ..(he developed bed sores once on their knock out meds..and became dehydrated..and harder to get back to his previous state)so they came a bit more often afterwards..... and.educational level and training were very lacking..especially when it comes to dosage levels..determined by a nurse practitioner..and introducing various drugs all at once..for the first time...into a person...not factoring potential side affects..which can manifest in delirium..Nausea ..lack of coordination..coherence..anxiety...lack of appetite..and inability to drink..comatose for days...after they placed a Fentanyl patch on him..leaving the care taker ...me..to try and sort out what is causing the effects..and seeing improvement while off some of the meds..while hospice keeps trying to keep him on those meds...saying they give them to everyone as standard..and immediately introduces them back in the first chance they get...so..some are fortunate in their care..others are not..though they can have nice concerned people taking care of them..just..not educated..or understanding that not everyone metabolizes meds ..and dosage..the same..

If this thread is closed down another one like it will start up. My husband died July 28th 2017. I would not sign the hospice papers so they decided to put my husband on palliative care anyway without my permission. They stopped the blood transfusions that were keeping him alive and stopped taking his blood pressure and vital signs. They just let him bleed to death and stave to death. They did not even take his blood pressure after they announced him dead....I stayed with him for another half-hour because you can still hear after 7 minutes or so after you are pronounced dead. The palliative care people did not even know that when they were suctioning him the last few days to tell him to keep his eyes open. They did not know that closing your eyes triggers the gag reflex. Was totally shocked at the little skills that they had. My heart is broken.

Cher, Palliative Care is NOT the same as hospice.

Hospice nurses aren't Nazi prison guards with ultimate power and authority. Family members can tell the hospice nurse at any time to stop administering or decrease the dosages of morphine and benzos. If you said nothing while you thought your loved one was getting too much medication, it doesn't mean the nurse was evil; it means you were complicit.

Cher,
When a suction catheter is stuck down anyone's throat, they are going to gag whether their eyes are open or not. Google: gag reflex. Stick your finger down your throat and find out. Performing deep suctioning on a dying person, which makes them gag and possibly vomit, is cruel.

Family members are enrolled in hospice to die a peaceful, pain-free death. If you want your terminally-ill family member to die while receiving CONTINUOUSLY PAINFUL procedures, take them back to the hospital or to a different hospital than where they were previously discharged.

The most egregious comments were spewed from the personality-disordered individual who boasted she bossed around and fired hospice companies. She stated that one day her dying family member had a pulse, but she performed CPR on him.

(Uh...if someone has a pulse, they don't need CPR. If your loved one is enrolled in hospice to die as peacefully as possible and have their pain managed, don't start CPR if they become pulseless.)

Retire Rn..per..your statement.. If you said nothing while you thought your loved one was getting too much medication, it doesn't mean the nurse was evil; it means you were complicit.....

I really take issue with that comment...and your attitude..it is insulting....we unfortunately have a certain amount of misguided trust in the care takers then..it seems...the question of this post is..Do you think Hospice rushed your loved ones to Death...rather than reading..hearing..what people are saying..you become defensive..and insulting to those of us who lost our loved ones...I know this group.page is run by nursing..Hospice service...so hopefully..they will...HEAR..understand what can go wrong..what does wrong..and that at times..poor training..or lack of training ..understanding..can affect an outcome..no one said the nurses were evil..that it was with evil intent...but training should be improved as well as having the proper tools...and...and not rush to medical conclusions about a patient...but I suspect that you may have some hidden guilt in mistakes that you have made in your career to be so defensive on this matter...

We expect the Nurse..or Nurse practicer..taking care of the family member to have a certain amount of knowledge and ability...and know..understand...how lethal these medications can be...and how to introduce the into an ill person without causing the person to go into shock...and have the proper equipment on hand...I shouldn't have to get a doctors or nursing degree myself...to counter the nurses..Nurse practitioners actions...but it seems that I do...and it on,y takes one second for a nurse to deliver these meds..once done...it's done..

And how is a Nurse given ability to declare death when she..he..has never seen death before?...especially after it occurs right after administering morphine and Ativan in higher dosages...and declare them dead..while their pupils are constricted!!! Not dialated..and...their jaw...teeth..clamped..locked..not relaxed...and their face frozen in agony...knocking off the nostril air tube with the back of her hand. Then..afterwards say she has never seen a dead person before...and quickly grabs all the documentation of meds and dosage used...No..her intent was not to kill him...she was going into I am in control mode now..and was shocked at the outcome...but..from all I have read...researched..he was still alive.in a state of overdose...Doctors do not declare a patient dead..if they consumed lage amounts of opiod meds and lorazepam....and their eyes pupils constricted..until there is no brain activity..and you are to be kept on oxygen..as the heart rate and breathing drop to almost undetectable levels....and lock in syndrome can occur ..until help..or breathing restarts...as this can occur...once stabilized or the meds wear offf...so basically I sent my brother to the morgue...while he was still alive! Because a home hospice nurse declared him dead...and I..the only caretaker..exhausted..lack,of sleep..and stress..didn't register what was occurring...but asked..are you sure he is dead...I don't deal with the dead..and sick......I have to trust what a nurse is saying...just to find out...she has never seen a dead person before..because of that statement...and his facial expression..I researched this...I now how to live with knowledge..

No the nurses are not evil..except on rare occasions...and he had some wonderful caring nurses...who were attentive...and listened...and a couple who were controllers...and the Nurse practioner...didn't even know what SNPs were when I stated genetic SNPs reading showed he was unable to met certain meds..and showed the list...per pharma studies....it didn't register with him... and still wanted him on the meds..because they give it to everyone....but just because you are in hospice..doesn't mean you should be killed by the meds...I can understand...a person in pain...coming to the very end ...wanting the meds...but just dumping them into a person showing no pain..in higher dosages..knowing they are sensitive to the meds..is just wrong...as well as not calling someone else to confirm desth...if they have never seen death before!

And yes..probably trying to revive him at that point...may have been futile...and accomplish little ....but at least he would not have been put in a body bag in a couscous state...

Well, unfortunately, this thread, like a volcano, is once again erupting in targeted accusations.

I wish the people who are condemning hospice and medical professionals would take a course in basic nursing, and read the curriculum of required courses. The courses are very challenging, and very extensive, as are the requirements, especially at some of the hospitals in Michigan.

I wonder how many people who criticize nurses, especially hospice nurses, have any idea how challenging it is to work not only in a medical profession but one which deals with perhaps the most emotional aspect of living, i.e., the opposite.

To malign the profession does not reflect an accurate assessment of the requirements or performance. Nor does nonmedical interpretation of intricate processes offer an understanding of what happens as death approaches and occurs.

Do you even read the post? What they say..why the #### have this page..or even have a spot to ask questions or tell of experiences..since you are so adamant and dogmatic is your view..if anything..it is now confirming my suspicions about the people we entrust our family with..

And..Again..the thread is DID HOSPICE RUSH YOUR LOVED ONES TO DEATH...not anything else..

I haven't seen condolences..sympathy..explanation..etc..to those posting their experiences that don't comply with your explanations..only condemnation and self glorifying...and frankly..I don't give a ###...to know how difficult your profession is..you chose it...and have a duty to thempatient to the best of your ability..

I have a government survey form..that I am slowly filling out..and I will use that to express my experience...again..I have had wonderful people and care given to family members......but in .some things where life is concerned..meds.....understanding their state...was very unacceptable...which should not be occurring..as example..like putting on a 75 mg Fentanyl patch on someone and giving them a bunch of meds all at the same time...into their system...causing their system to go crazy...when you never give higher dosages to start with..especially while talking other opines..and say..oh..we give this to everyone....just one example....but you are so hung up on seeing..reading...and not understanding...as if defense for those thatnerrredmis necessary rather to take note...and perhaps explain..because you know death...and we do not..but that hospice nurse here...did not know death...I dont hate her..I know she did not do it intentionally...and was shocked...at the results..but she was adamant that she knew what to do...and took control in those moments...rushed into the moment..when it was not necessary...and completely ignored what I had been saying many times over to her and the Nurse practioner...she was a good person..not mean...just lacking in knowledge and training...but..per your attitude.. I am the bad ignorant one...because I didn't ...don't..have a basic training in Nursing..and because...the profession should be above criticism..

Yes..so challenging..and busy..they had lots of time to walk through my home..admire the things..and tell me about the things their hospice patients gave them as gifts...

And btw..your use of words..still does not reflect an ability..other than to revert to supposed higher intellectual knowledge of those that you are addressing appearing to be superior in knowledge...and very condescending...when also in reality..the words say nothing...Nor responded to anything that has been posted in this conversation thread .or explaining....you just don't get it...do you...dogmatic to the end..no compassion..or understanding that not everything is always right..and..as far as the training goes..great that some states are better in certification...but...sometimes it is not the case...and how is criticism...a malaignment of a whole,profession...the system needs to be accountable...in any profession...and issues..mistakes addressed...otherwise it is disastrous..in any field or profession...