I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Look no further than what was described in earlier posts about the experience when he takes his mom to doc appts. He is disengaged, otherwise occupied, conducting biz while he does the task at hand .. and not present in the moment and part of what's going on, in his hemisphere, he's elsewhere .. conducting biz.
And unapologetic about it. No need, nothing vested in him, to change it. Doesn't care. Would tell you, "I am getting her to the doc! Where's the problem here, .. no .. I don't have time to go to lunch .. I'm pulling off a jobsite somewhere .. and I'm having to coordinate things ... I don't have time for all that". No apologies.
Just as one example of how he is so far removed from the shoes I've walked in, he could never understand/own what it is that I am frustrated with and articulate it well.
I asked him yesterday to get his sister to agree that we sit down and talk, face to face. He comes home from there, with this dialogue ... "you just need to give them a call, sister doesn't seem to be aware that you've reached out countless times".
How I wish that he .. owning all that is this whole stupid mess, would've spoken up and said to her, "SISTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHE HAS ASKED YOU TIME AND TIME AGAIN ...........OWN IT, THAT YOU HAVE CAUSED SOME OF THIS IN DISREGARDING HER REQUESTS".
Why would he though, he doesn't walk in my shoes .. and so .. kinda removed from it all. Really, .. truthfully.
I don't know that I even want him a part of any dialogue that transpires between she and I.
I know about myself, that I am tactful, I am kind .. I would never act with malice towards anyone, ever. And so .. in that, I trust that I can talk with her, .. and her alone, .. face to face, .. and say the things I want said, and say them in a manner that isn't hurtful and divisive and I will do that.
It's unfortunate that it isn't somehow being communicated .. to SIL .. that SHE needs to step up to the plate here, sounds like some thick as a brick heads in this whole thing.
After sleeping on it, I have no desire to:
A) make my way over to their house, as the setting for any discussion
AND
B) Include MIL .. at least initially.
So what I WILL DO THOUGH .. I will reach out to her, since it seems she can't "get it" that in some ways she has stepped in it with me, thru the years of all this whole saga .. she can't seem to "get that", and reach out and extend any kind of allegiance to start some dialogue as to what her part may have been in it.
I will, put in a call to her and ask that she meet me somewhere (once again) and/or she is welcome to come here, .. absent her mom with her, that there are some things I'd like to talk to her and solely her about.
She will ask, as she did one time prior when I've tried to get face-time with her about the whole thing "and we'll include mother in this right?". I will answer her, "I will be talking to your mom, yes .. but not about the things I wish to talk to you about, ... I am asking once again, as I've done previously .. that you and I, both ... sit down and talk, can you make that happen".
And we'll see where it goes.
I truly feel that this disconnect of hurt/anger that is going on in the background of all this .. for me to tuck my tail and go snarking back in there, .. for a sit down with the both of them, infers .. or at least it feels that way to me ... that I am implicitly in so doing, .. admitting that I have screwed up here.
That doesn't at all define how I feel about it. QUITE THE CONTRARY. As far as I'm concerned, I am the one who has been done wrong. And in fact, I'm quite angry about it all. And there are some things I want changed going forward.
All I can do, is reach out .. yet again (as I've done before, and it's been disregarded or *conveniently* not recognized or forgotten) .. and make the effort to extend an olive branch towards some understanding and comprehension on it all, and on grounds that don't infer that I am snarking back in with my tail between my legs .. guilty of having stepped in the proverbial chit.
Not interested in that set up.
I'm kinda on the page, .. this is YOUR MOM .. yes, I do love all of you very very much .. but .. in the end, this is YOUR MOM and YOUR BROTHER'S MOM. I helped for a long long long time, in every way I could, and was happy to do it. When I said that the need is increasing, between an aged frail woman and her needs, and that of the same with a dog of her's .. and my requests got completely dispensed with and ignored, .. "What would you have had me do SIL?, stay engaged and keep hopping to a beat I'd already said I can no longer sustain?".
I would like to hear her answer to that question, and no her mother doesn't need to be present for that topic to be covered and discussed.
I would like to point out to her, that going forward .. this business that you text your brother and get no response. That stops here and now, as to triangulating me into it. That causes unnecessary friction in my world, for .... let's remember YOUR MOTHER and YOUR DECISIONS .. as to leaving her to live alone. A decision I am not signed on for but yes respect your right to make that decision. But the triangulating me into the texting when you aren't getting a prompt response from your brother, that's between you and your brother, and that stops .. here and now.
I will be kind enough in the above dialogue to recognize the fact that it's awfully/terribly/stressful for her to have to try to manage this all from afar .. but let's all remember here, ... this is YOUR decision you made with your mom ... one I don't ascribe to, but it's not mine to enter any input into it. Got that. But .. if you are frustrated that the tree limb is laying there and you can't get your brother out there, to chop it up for the mom .. who has nothing to do with her day but ponder out her window at the annoying tree limb laying there, needing chopped up and hauled off, .. or if the sprinkler head in the irrigation system isn't coming on right .. and you can't get your brother to return your queries on it, if a piece of fence has blown down, .. if the sink is leaking, the toilet is not flushing .. any number of the things that are consistent with home ownership .... and managing same ... if you can't get your brother to be responsive and answer to your requests, that's between the two of you to resolve .. maybe you can find a solution, but the solution is no longer, viable, for you to then send it my way.
I am sick to death of being triangulated into the above. You call MIL . in the event of one of the above mishaps .. "Ya know SIL is after us because you have a huge tree limb that fell in the b'yard, just wanted you to know .. DH knows about it ... he will get there as soon as he can"
You hear from MIL "Oh what is the matter with her, damnit ... I wish she'd leave you guys alone .. why is she bothering you guys with that".
Me: "Well I guess because when she talks to you, you talk about the unsightly tree limb laying in the b'yard that you wish you were able to get out there and handle yourself .. and so I guess .. I don't know .... I guess she figures it's a bother to you and so she is hounding me that DH needs to get out there".
Her: "I wish she wouldn't do that, I sit here, with nothing to talk about, .. my world is just right here at this kitchen table, and I just happen to mention that damn confounded tree limb that I wish I could get out there to take care of, and now she is bothering you guys. I realize he's busy .. and he'll get here, I wish she wouldn't do you guys that way".
I am sick to death of being in the middle of that whole mess, and want no part of it going forward.
For far too long, I was taking on, and owning things which weren't in anybody's hemisphere, mine to own.
I will commend her that the situation has now gotten to the point that somehow she was able to achieve getting her mom to understand that she needs to assign some home health agency .. to come in 8 hours a week. That I think that's a huge huge plus.
And that, .. THAT ... was the very thing I was trying to get to, this past spring when I was complaining that it's all too much for me, we need more help with what it is to prop all this up .. that's where I was .. and at that time, my requests .. got ignored .. and dismissed and responses of, "She's just so stubborn". THAT does not speak to the issue. That I am pleased that things have taken a turn to the point there will be additional help sought to answer to some of the need.
I'll let her know that I am available on Tuesdays .. or Wednesdays or whatever day I deem that fits my agenda .. and I will help if that suits a need, .. dependent on what that need is.
But .....
I am not interested in dog duty .. you can assign that elsewhere. The dog treats, the dog grooming, the dog washing, the vet appointments, .. all of it, .. find another source to speak to that need, that isn't anything I'm signing on for.
Would like to remind her, which she will well remember, .. when her mother was my age .. that's when she finally launched her last kid outta her house (my husband) .. they had a family dog that the sister (SIL) had drug home from college, and then moved away .. and left with MIL and FIL . That dog was kept around, .. as DH languished there, before he finally launched from their home. When DH did leave their home .. finally ... and she was now free of kids .. and responsibilities. She hauled a perfectly viable dog in to be euthanized for no other reason than she was done .. done with being responsible to anyone or anything. A concept we all found appalling and not something I think she would ever in a million years do today.
But with that .. with that whole thing in mind, put yourself in my shoes. I still have a daughter living here in my home .. she too brought a dog in .. a dog I didn't ask for .. and I am done .. I'm about at that same station that MIL was .. done with being responsible for anyone or anything. So asking me to do dog duty .. is not something I'm interested in, leave me out of that.
And mean it.
She's got DD she can speak to about it, and coordinate .. and/or she can find a mobile groomer, a mobile vet .. whatever she needs to do, hell for that matter there are courier services .. as to pick up of specialty dog foods and dog treats .. and yes, that adds expense, to have to pay some stupid courier driver to go pick up confounded dog products .. and deliver them. Yep, PITA .. got it. But not my problem, not something I will continue to own as to answering to that need. Period.
I'll let her know, as I said, I'm available "X" day of the week, if there is need for MIL . not for the dog .. and I will try to answer to said need ..
And leave the rest of it to her. She can figure out how her mom gets BRAT supplies delivered in the even of illness ... or whatever and it's not on the "X" day of the week that Dorker has offered her services. Or Hell for that matter, .. we know what BRAT diet includes, rice/jello/dry toast .. go buy a frickin pallet of each and stock it in her garage .. so it's there at the ready. Use the home health folks, to send them to go get whatever. Have it delivered, .. whatever works .. but I will make myself available (dependent on the specific need) . on "x" day of the week, and outside of that, this is all going to fall to you, to yes .. I know it's stressful and hard to manage from afar, terribly horribly hard .. but these aren't decisions I'd make. All I can do is help where I can .. and that's what I can do. my life and my daily existence has to make sense to me, .. or my life becomes more burdensome than it should be for a problem, that truly .. is not mine to own. And I won't, not anymore.
Now when I say some of these things to DH .. .(he is not really engaged and listening to me, but let's remember, he hasn't walked a mile in these shoes . never has/never will, .. he is very good at not engaging in it all, thus his removal and displacement from it all), .. he says that it sounds mean spirited and not very loving and kind.
Perhaps .. that's on them .. that they perceive in that manner. I say some of what he does, seems mean spirited and not loving and kind (ignoring texts being so disengaged). SO be it.
DD too, says that the flavor of my tone, seems mean spirited and unkind. So be it. I can say all the above, and with a tone that doesn't infer being mean. And I will. She too, has not walked a mile in my shoes. Let's see how she feels henceforth several months from now being called into service, for dog need.
Was interesting (she was present yesterday as DH returned and was questioned as to the whole scene over there), that's where she made the comment that my flavor/tone seems mean spirited. Was interesting, as I suggested, .. "I dunno, maybe SIL puts the dog column over DD's head .. and she takes up that torch". DD then, .. her words, "...and my two sisters, ..???.... are they being assigned anything in all of this, or is it all just on me".
I didn't say it, because I am no longer owning all this crap. But I wanted to say to her, "if I'm not mistaken you were asked, if you wanted to help and you agreed to do so .. that's up to your dad and your aunt, they can certainly contact your sisters if they need to figure some help in some of it, ..".
I didn't say that though, because I am done with the contention of it all. It's not my problem here folks! Get that, own it/live it/breathe it/wear it, be it.
I simply didn't speak to it, when she said that.
To me, it feels a little like ............. short of being the dumping ground for all things MIL need .. that I'm seen as mean spirited and unkind.
That isn't fair to me, and I know that. Shame that those closest to me, don't see it also, and if not .. at least respect it. Doesn't seem that is the case. So .. I'll just have to live my daily life with the knowledge that my word/opinion .. as to my participation i it all, is my own .. nobody else thinks that I'm justified in my words. I guess I just live my daily life with the knowledge that I'm thought of as mean/unkind.
I don't even intend to go there with SIL on what (MY PLANS) are as we go forward as to hurricane season. It sounds as though it's still on her radar (and MIL's) there will be a transfer to IL before hurricane season rolls around (I'm sure MIL will find some way to finagle that doesn't happen in the end).
MY PLANS as I've indicated .. I won't be here .. I will clear outta here and go to the mtns of SC. And be safely tucked away from it all. But I'm not even going there, as to that dialogue with SIL .. she can continue to think she needs to make provision her mom be out of harm's way during hurricane season. I'll just acknowledge, in discussion with her, that I think it's probably paramount that occur. Glad to hear they have that on the radar in the coming months, gonna be imperative that happen.
We'll see where it goes.
These are some of the things I'd like to sit and talk with her about and have repeatedly asked that she allow me that .. and she conveniently doesn't recognize and/or forgets those requests have been made. I don't think MIL needs to be present for that.
When I do sit with MIL .. I will ask her about her hurt feelings over her stay here during the hurricane and when she says what I think she will say .. "well I just felt as if you were rude, and made it evident you didn't want me there". I will answer to that .. "as you know, .. I don't do well with those kinds of settings .. and I can promise you, I did the very best that I could under difficult circumstances .. and let me remind you what I did do for you .. and let's not forget the other times you have needed to shelter at my home and the myriad of other things that I've helped with thru the years, .. and .. beyond that, glad you guys have a plan going forward and you wont' be subject to that again.
And .. (notice, there is no apology in that). There won't be one. I don't feel I did anything wrong. I was aloof, yes .. I was. I was .. absent a lot .. yes I was. But I am not sorry .. and I was never rude, nor was I unkind to her. And so in my view, there is no apology due. And to do so would infer that I would do things differently going forward, and no, I can't say that I would, so I won't apologize.
MIL can take it or leave it.
Look if I could say what I want to, to all involved .. and actually be heard .. it would fall along the lines of .. "Look this is yall's decision to make .. I got that, firmly got my brain wrapped around it .. don't agree with it, but that's immaterial. What you ALL need to sit up and take notice on is this. MIL's life in making the decisions you make, there are going to be bumps .. she is not some queen that sits on her throne and gets to met out her wants/wishes/demands and someone will come running to her beckon call, it doesn't work that way. I said all along .. if anyone was listening .. there is NO ONE HERE in this city .. that can put aside their life and do ... all things MIL and manage it, like you do SIL ... you come here, and do everything but breathe for your mom .. and your life in IL .. gets put on hold .. I realize that too, is no easy task and has it's own pittfalls .. got that .. but this is YOUR decision to leave her be in her own home. Not mine. You all are going to have to realize that her life in making the choices you make, will be bumpy at times, there is no one here to answer to all the need .. as promptly as it might otherwise look. There simply isn't. So the sprinkler head isn't coming on as it should, so the toilet won't flush .. so the light bulb burned out, so the fence blew over .. so what ...???.... live with it, .. for a few days .. it's not .. not any of it, an earth shattering, oh all all the minions into service .. deal with it .. so the dog treats haven't been picked up and the dog is looking really bad and in need of grooming, the dog stinks and needs bathed .. so ... figure it out .. outside of my circumfrence .. this is not mine to own ............. and if that sounds mean spirited .. then that's on you all to figure a way around".
It seems like MIL has accepted that she needs outside help! What a victory! Someone else to take her grocery shopping and to the bank and dog groomer? Yay!
The bigger issue is SIL directing from afar. I'd want to get it straight that MIL is going to have to say what's needed. She's going to have to make a plan with HHC and will need to know what she needs and wants.
And when SIL texts from afar, you say " I'll have to hear from Mom that that's something she wants and is going to follow through with. Not like the exercise bike". And anything that seems like a rabbit hole, just ignore, or put off.
The fact that MIL has not even realized you have stepped out of day to day operations indicates MIL does have some sort of cognitive deficit. Maybe because her daughter has been here so long MIL has lost the perception of time? Yet her children feel she is competent to live alone.
A good thing is that you have finally facilitated MIL’s kids talking about MIL long term care issues.
The bad thing is that neither SIL nor DH still do not “get” your concerns. They are not willing to see that their inaction or letting the situation progress status quo is detrimental to their mom’s safety. It may be that in their hearts they know your concerns are indeed valid and you represent a reality they are avoiding. Who knows what they are thinking as they have made no effort to discuss anything with you.
Even now you remain the voice of reason. I don’t understand why DH isn’t listening to you. I agree that any sit down needs to be with SIL & DH first. I wouldn’t have MIL there for the “first” meeting either.
I would suggest a few therapy sessions with you, DH & the new pastor. Pastor could be the moderator and help you both by being an objective party.
In the meantime I don’t really think you need to do anything else. You have presented your concerns and offered alternatives. The ball is in their court.
This is a terribly stressful situation FOR YOU. SIL & DH are making it worse as the clock is ticking & SIL will be leaving soon. Then what? DH has the answers (he’ll tend to his mother after work). Could it be both SIL & DH are counting on you & playing with your emotions in that they want you to feel guilty and jump back in when a daytime emergency occurs and DH tells you he’s got work to do (gotta support the household, another guilt trip on you) thus the responsibility is that YOU need to step up take care of MIL simply because he is the main source of income?
Regarding the hurricane issue, if I were you I wouldn’t apologize. Apologizing assumes guilt and the feeling that you did something wrong. Well....you didn’t. Again no one seems to respect your opinion. It’s all me, me, me.
Most elderly folk become very self centered. They become incapable of recognizing the burden on their caregivers. Unfortunately SIL & DH are being very selfish as well. You are the only one thinking this through, yet no one is making any effort to get to the table with you to discuss the alternatives and develop a plan. Seems like they validate each other & you are left to be the bad guy.
What are they afraid of? (DH/SIL) I get they want to faciliate MIL’s last days staying in her home, but who bears the brunt of that? You do, Dorker. DH has made his stance clear - he is not going to disrupt his routine to tend to his mother. Thus it’s up to you. He has a blatant disregard for you in this situation. You prefer organization, he flies by the seat of his pants.
This is a pretty serious test of your marriage- that’s what worries me. It’s like your bubble is being burst. You fear losing those loving relationships nurtured over the years. Things change, unfortunately. It’s a real let down for you and that makes me sad.
My advice - keep the lines of communication open yes, but it’s their turn now to respect your opinion. To respect it, they need to understand it first and you can’t make them do so. If SIL isn’t willing to meet you half way by herself without MIL there, then that’s where it stands. To me, for DH to request YOU call THEM to “hash things out” this week....hmmm, no. Ask him to set up a meeting this week between the three of you (not MIL) & you will be happy to attend. But drive yourself just in case.
Try to put this away, Dorker. You are the only one who worries about this non stop. DH will now have to face his pastor today (the pastor who believes that needs of the spouse come first, before parents) which is why yesterday’s Drive thru Prayer idea was priceless on your part. Good move! And maybe DH will reach out to the new pastor as therapy for DH.
Try not to take on everyone’s psychological burdens nor spend time trying to figure them out. You can only control you. They’ve assigned you as the bad guy with no basis for that - look what you’ve done for the family over the past 15 years! Seems like they are quick to overlook how helpful you’ve been & I find this to be very selfish on DH & SIL part.
Continue on your path, don’t be afraid to voice your concerns nor bring those concerns to your husband. Keep on keeping on.
Like I said prior, either way there are now hurt feelings and things will never be the same in your relationships with DH, SIL or MIL due to this change in dynamics. DH & SIL have labeled you already, when what they need to do is look within.
I am very sorry and sad about the lack of communication from DH & SIL. DH has a short fuse and admits he is “too busy” to get caught up in “details” or “what if’s”, and SIL is not talking to you at all.
This too shall pass. It will! Give DH the job of setting up a meeting with the three of you this week. I hope he can fit this in his busy schedule.
Evacuating was H3ll. 8 hrs to make a normal 2 hour trip. Gridlock. Fuel shortage. Vehicle crammed with prized possessions, Kids, pets.
I don’t know. After Harvey, I, we all said never again. But, Harvey was headed to Corpus Christi, after all that’s where Jim Cantore was stationed. We weren’t in danger. Just a 30-45 mile wobble and suddenly we were in danger. The stupid storm was moving 2 mph over us! It was a Freak Storm.
I've lived in FL all my life .. and there was a really bad one .. eons ago .. when I was a small child, but I don't remember it. There have been some that have come in aiming at us but then turned .. and so I'd never experienced this kinda special new H3!!
Thus, anyone that wants to bunk here next time, come one, come all, but I won't be here.
During our Hurricane Debacle of 2017 hubby was on a job in Kansas. There was a storm path shift, sudden Storm intensification, too late to evacuate. I had my 35yr Old single daughter, 29yr Old son, his wife, and 4 yr old grandson shelter in my home. 95 degrees. 90% humidity, no power or water for days,you know where I’m going with this.
We are a very close family. We have a big meal every Sunday evening.
There were times I could have strangled my daughter with my bear hands. My son and I got into it a couple times. My DIL whom I adore was getting on my nerves. There is just no escaping the tension.
Don’t even get me started on the generators. Who wants to listen to that noise after living thru the over stimulation of a Hurricane?
A time prior .. in the year previous when evacs ordered for her area, storm in the area .. and that time .. I think I was probably more tolerant as I'd not yet reached my saturation point with the whole thing that is the MIL drama .. and all that sent me reeling from it. If I recall, the stay was shorter in that one.
And there was one time several years back when a storm was bearing down, and evacs ordered, and she was brought here. But that was several years back.
Fast forward to 2017 .. and that specific time frame. It was a longer duration that we weathered that storm and it's after effects. Many things closed down in the aftermath of that specific event. Roads impassable .. and a particularly heinous storm, that one was.
And I was also .. as I said, .. saturated by that point in time with all things MIL and the whole scene and so I probably as not the most pleasant and warm and inviting host.
I think almost anyone who knows me personally would deem me to be a warm and inviting host and welcoming.
Remove from my world, .. the ability to sleep at all, .. first off sheer stress .. from a pressing storm .. and then beyond that, the after effects, no power, .. and it's hot and humid .. and so you're functioning on no sleep .. and then .. like it's camping .. and for what seems like will have no end, days upon days. And no end in sight .. (locally our power company doesn't give estimates .. not in an event like that, as to hopeful restoration of service).
Now throw into that mix an aged frail mother in law .. (and as I said, by that time I'd washed my hands of the whole thing) .. and then .. her inability to ambulate much around here on her own .. and her dog .. and his needs. I was probably rude.
As you said, you shelter in my home, prepare for a bumpy ride, .. and better yet .. you better be pretty self sufficient. My normal hosting capabilities, out the window . with all of that to deal with.
Oh and FWIW .. at the time of this huge issue .. our bathroom (the one she would use) was under construction .. remodel. And so that bathroom, not real pleasant to be using. Nobody could take a hot shower anyway .. but there was only a commode in there and hand sanitizer to offer (no sink to wash your hands .. or shower, wash your face, etc). I have a shower in my master bathroom, but that one . there's no way she could've maneuvered in .. it's far too small for she and her walker to even enter into that bathroom. So add that into the mix.
So apologies .. I dunno. Christian like, probably yes.
Let’s hope MIL is on board with the help that has been lined up. If she is that will take care of the long drawn out tasks.
Apologizing about the Hurricane Debacle...that’s a personal decision. Would it be the Christian thing to do? Maybe someone else can advise. But, as one that has lived it, my opinion is, you don’t evacuate, you shelter in my home, prepare for a bumpy ride.
I would do 2 separate sit downs. One with MIL if you see fit to smooth things over. The other with SIL to drive home that you will not be the go between for her and her brother. That all that madness is part of the reason you bowed out in the first place. She has his phone number. If he doesn’t respond. Well, welcome to your world. She has no right to try to drag you into it at that point.
Yes, it is the VA Aid and Attendance program she trying to get up and going ..
I have read just a bit about it, online. Don't understand much of it though. Not even sure .. how .. (but maybe I don't understand the program) there is qualification for same. Yes DH's dad was a vet from a time of conflict (I think the Korean War) .. not forward combat role, but that doesn't matter. What confuses me, it seems the material I read indicates he would have had to receive "pension" bene's from the VA to qualify and he did not. I suppose he did his stint in the military .. being maybe a 2 year/4 year term, not sure, and he was done (honorably discharged). But he didn't retire/receive a pension from the VA .. and it seems what I read .. indicates that as a requirement? Not sure.
But anyway ..
Yes that's what is being applied for. And .. from the sounds of it, we will have to contribute monetarily until this kicks in (don't have a problem with that).
According to DH's visit with them today, SIL has lined up a home health care agency ...???..... to come in about 8 hours a week .. spread out ...???.....they will help with things like doc visits and grocery store trips.
This is to be right about $160 weekly, for this 8 hour allotment.
I don't understand it all, and don't know the practicality of how that all works, to be honest. I see it as .. gee .. 8 hours .. well one trip to the grocery and youv'e burned up about 3 hours .. (not kidding). So that leaves about 5 hours .. and so .. a trip .. one .. to the doc, and there's at least another 2 hours .. so now you have 3 hours left in the week .. I guess, in case you have an add'l doc appointment that week.
How does that even work? Is there someone that goes with MIL and accompanies her to said destinations and walks with her, and they sit and read a magazine while she visits her doctor .. and wait for her .. do they amble around the grocery with her, as she chats up every living breathing human in her path? How does it work? Do they drop her on her merry way .. and off they go .. and then she calls them when she's ready for pick up and they dispatch another individual for pick up .. how does it work? I don't know.
Do these kinds of folks .. load her into the car, for a trip to the vet for her pet? Do they load her into the car for a trip to pick up specialty dog food items?
I don't know anything about how all this works.
I am encouraged by this news (though I do realize from what little I've read, it will be months and months and months before there is approval, if there is approval). But the very fact that a home health service agency of some sort has been engaged into the whole thing .. is a positive, in my view. Very much so.
Remember there was a time when I would encourage grocery delivery and that was pooey'd .. I encouraged that we send around some of our church folks , to take her and/or her dog, to appointments, that too pooey'd.
The very fact there is agreement .. (how they got there, I don't know) to let "others" assist .. is a huge plus.
As to the other item remaining on the agenda. DH was to have done what he can .. i that setting, visiting there today .. to see if he can't get SIL to at least .. sit down with me, face-to-face and let's hash some of this out.
The result of that (of course, .. let's give credit where due .. the very fact there is an outside agency now engaged to provide some of the need, is a huge plus) .. but the result of my request that he get SIL's ear and a request that she and I sit down face to face.
Here's what he had to say on that: "You just need to get with the two of them (that's not what I asked for) mom and Sister .. and you all 3 need to sit down and hash thru some things .. mom misses you and loves you, and always thought of you as another daughter (that much is true) .. and she just wants things how they used to be .. and Sister .. she doesn't seem to be aware that there has been any reaching out to her.
Of course this sends me into orbit and I quote to him the numerous times that I've reached out my hand to try to get her face-to-face and he says, "Well I'm not you .. and I don't know this stuff .. so you'll have to point that out to her, but you just need to, maybe sometime this week, go sit down with the two of them and hash thru some things".
I don't know how I feel about that. First off .. I am so worn out with all of this that I really don't have the stomach at this point for any drama queen Narcissa foolishness. I love her, that much is true. But I don't care to go down any road that leads to a bunch of drama. Just worn out from it all.
My beef, .. not so much, hasn't been with MIL front and center .. for the most part .. more so SIL and her incessant texting and streaming her thoughts to me via text .. as to the next lotion/potion/gadget/device/pill/test/procedure, .. rabbit hole and wild goose chases. THAT more to the point is my grievance, .. so put all that out there, in conversation with MIL too .. ..as DH asserts, "you just need to sit down with the two of them and you 3 sit and hash thru some things". (that isn't what I asked for). .
Yes, grievance with MIL .. also to a degree that she absolutely flat out, for the longest period of time, refused add'l help from any direction. Seems some of that has let up, . in this newest explanation that a home health agency is being engaged into it all.
So .. that particular aspect, I'm pleased with (at least rudimentary .. since I don't understand the under pinnings of it all). Seems that particular aspect is being spoken to, at least .. in part.
I have yet to align in my own brain how the rest of it will work. Who sees to the incidentals that crop up . such as illness that was not expected .. the many other things that crop up.
If things are, as they appear .. or as I'd hope the above to be. . then the groceries are being taken care of . and maybe a doc visit a week, and/or maybe someone to assist her to go get her specialty dog items .. If it's as it appears ....... (can it possibly be that this would be true) .. then that leaves some time/energy for dealing with other incidentals and minutia that crop up. For sure.
I haven't yet aligned my brain as to what that looks like, .. and how that should all play out. Rudimentarily .. I was thinking, .. "Well maybe just to make it simplistic .. I can tell them .. well since you've got so many of these other bases covered .. I'll be glad to take care of anything that you can set on a Tuesday .. let me know if you need me. And leave it at that (Tuesday just for no other reason than it seems to be a day that works for me).
I don't mind helping out, .. if the above is actually looking like it seems to look ..
But who knows, since I don't have any real clear understanding on how all of this plays out.
I haven't yet figured my way to how I will have a sit down and discussion. I had wanted it to be just SIL and myself, so that I could express to her why I have been absent in all of this, the complete lack of any respect for my wishes in it all .. and the complete dumping of it all, in my lap .. in her absence and I was just flat out done, absent any ability and willingness on any one's part for any compromise .. just done.
I wanted the opportunity to talk with SIL to let her know .. some semblance of "Look .. you text your brother, he doesn't respond .. that's not on me, gonna need you to leave me out of that, if it's an issue you need your brother's attention on .. then do what you need to, to reach him, we have a landline .. but I'm no longer doing your bidding in that arena .. it causes friction in my world, that I no longer want to deal with".
But .. this whole notion .. "You just need to sit down with the two of them .. and hash some of this thru", per DH.
DO I really need to sit down with MIL present to hash thru some of that? Not in my opinion.
The whole hurricane thing .. and DH's words on that, "she just felt like you were rude to her when she stayed at our house to shelter from the storm", he goes on further to say ................... "so apologize to her, or don't .. if you don't feel you owe her an apology then don't apologize .. but just address it, talk to her".
So obviously there needs to be some sit down face-to-face discussion . but I still don't think it needs to be me against the both of them .. and the feeling that I may be somehow attacked in it .. because .. they are of the notion that I'm so hurtful and so wrong to have done what I've done. I don't need it, don't want it, the drama.
As I told DH .. Maybe it took me getting out of the way of the whole thing for them to both recognize that add'l help is needed, that's where we are, it would appear! Finally!
So .. anybody care to weigh in how things should progress from here? I sure could use the input ..
I don't know that I need to make an effort at "apology" for the hurricane issue. As DH put it to his mom .. "mom .. she was doing the best she could .. she doesn't weather it well .. and she was doing the best she could . she did an awful lot for you .. she was the one that took you home, I couldn't do it .. and helped you to get things put away and then went and got your groceries replenished for you and then came back and sat vigil for yard clean up and paid for it .. so .. she did an awful lot for you".
He said she just sits with her mouth agape when he says that .. almost in a "oh yea, your'e right" kinda way.
So .. the many points here, anyone cares to weigh in on. I'm all eyes. Would love to read it.
I have so many thoughts and opinions, my head is spinning and I find myself unable to string together a constructive sentence.
Well, beyond these two:
First - the Veteran Aid and Attendance thing. Sure, they may drive MIL to the grocery store. But is SIL so oblivious that she thinks they will actually sit outside and wait while MIL does the slow, slow shopping and chatting that has been described? Or even, that they will come in and help MIL do her slow, slow shopping? Don’t even get me started on the fact that MIL doesn’t seem to be able to select a can of beans off the shelf without toppling over.
Second - I do wish people would stop focusing and blaming the poor dog. Does anyone think that removing the dog from the equation actually solves anything? This poor animal is only behaving as he has been trained to do. NOT HIS FAULT! Is his reward, after many years of doing his job - and doing it well given how attached MIL is to him - is to be euthanized because he has become inconvenient? That’s the most heartless thing I have ever heard. Put the blame where it belongs - on the three selfish and clueless humans in this situation.
Said he has a sister and two brothers that live near her (in another state). That the sister takes the torch with the groceries and the doc visits. And that invariably mom complains that sister didn't get just the right cereal, .. or just the precisely ripe bananas or whatever. That he tells his mother, .. "you have two sons there also .. if she already went and your aren't pleased, call one of them".
His point was, .. "you Dorker, do have the right to set some boundaries around all of this".
THANK YOU!!!!!!
What I don't want .. and would be most unfortunate .. is that loving relationships that existed for years .. to be destroyed. That's what I most want out of it all. I do love and care about all the parties involved, and I presume, they do me also .. one would hope.
I do know that it's been said, by DH and by DD, both more in touch with the source of all this than myself, .. that my absence in it all, is palpable. I'm sure it is.
One would hope .. in a world where things are sane .. that, in and of itself, enough impetus to come to the bargaining table with some willingness to be flexible and open for what works for all parties involved.
DH is right about my thought to the degree .. I DO think it's wanton irresponsibility and ludicrous to leave her in her home. But I also have enough sense to realize, .. that isn't my decision to make. So be it.
So .. what of the rest of the need that flies thru the air constantly as to the set up, .. therein lies the problem(s).
So .. kick a gift horse in the mouth then .. the very gift horse that was once an integral part of the whole thing and dispense with that gift horse's assertions as to the need being too great to manage all on one person. Now .. hurt feelings abound .. So come to the table with a more open mind . as to forcing some issues that require more flexibility.
I think of when we were fighting the battles as to groceries .. and getting her to the grocery store, and the haphazard manner that was even occurring. I suggested numerous times .. there are services for that kinda thing .. I WILL PAY FOR IT ... she just has to pay for her groceries, which she does anyway.
The answer to that, along the lines of: "She *likes* to go the grocery and touch and feel and see things she might want.
Okay so ... yes .. some of the time .. that's reasonable .. yes ... but for the main staples she needs routinely .. let's get it set up that the groceries are delivered, so that burden isn't then bandied about as to who/where/when/how.
Oh she would never allow some stranger to come, and be in her midst .. MIL repeating the same, . .. I don't want a stranger coming into my home.
Okay so let's leave it all loose ends then .. no one to pick up that torch and run with it .. it just hangs there unanswered as to how it gets met, that need. And then when the need arises it'll be a free-for-all as to who gets the hot potato passed to them.
THAT KINDA THING DOES NOT WORK FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!
Not if you want my participation in it all.
I truly don't think I am unreasonable. I don't.
I was just, for the sake of my own curiosity, in a chat session with a grocery delivery service, to pick the brain/mind of how it all works ... what do they do to certify that the person delivering the groceries has been b'ground ck'd and is an okay person to send in to someone's home, no criminal history, etc. I was told they b'ground check each applicant and only 8% of those who apply get employment there. That, to me, is due diligence of not being irresponsible and sending someone into MIL's home that is perhaps a criminal and there to cause harm. So .. you set up an arrangement where her groceries are ordered online (SIL could do that, from afar) she talks to her mom daily, 3 and 4 x's .... that's a great opportunity to keep a running list of what's needed and on "x" day .... groceries are delivered. Wahlaa! That burden isn't now a hot potato being passed around as to how it will get addressed. And further, .. that "need" is met .. and as such, no one single person in all this .. "hey .. you can't ask me to go and do _____________________I was just there yesterday to see to her grocery needs, .. too bad .. not going again today because so and so is now a problem".
That kinda thing makes sense in my world ... in my way of functioning daily. That's the kinda thing I am talking about, some order/organization to it all. So now, when the dog suddenly gets sick . behind the fact that yesterday was grocery day .. then .. whoever is signed on for dog duty ... deals with the dog sickness .. and no one person has all of this on them .. day in and day out.
It's not too much to ask. It just seems to me that if it could at all be possible, to get SIL and DH on that page .. if that's even possible, then it could be presented to MIL in the format of .. "hey these are the things that will help all of us to help support you and respect your wishes and we need you to be flexible enough to accommodate it .. so that we can help you to be comfortable and happy and know that we are . also comfortable with the set up". And I guess she can flat out refuse .. "No .. I told you guys I don't want some stranger coming into my home with groceries .. I told you all that". So now, back to the drawing board .. what else is on the list of the constant need that can be addressed differently so that the grocery need, which she absolutely will not bend on .. can be addressed .. but some other need is met a different way.
I don't know .. I wish I had all the answers, I don't. But I do know that what was the order of the day, DID NOT WORK.
I understand your not being excited about dealing with all three if you feel detached from your husband. I was much encouraged by him saying he had your back.
I think what you did today was awesome.
DH, no doubt, had a mixture of emotions.
But to me, you either believe in it or you don’t. Especially if you set yourself up as a leader.
The new preacher could possibly be of great help for DH. He needs a resource like you have on this forum and with your therapist and it’s a common ground for the two of you. That’s a gift you gave him to break the ice for him with the preacher about his personal problems.
And you know if you and DH aren’t on the same page then it will be very difficult for co caretaking to be successful.
Caretaking is a hard job when you are able to make all the decisions. When you are able to make none and throw in loss of your own life decisions too boot, it brings you to where you are now.
The preacher is absolutely right. The three care givers need to all agree on next steps and be a united front. I seriously doubt SIL can get it but that’s why you had to do what you’ve done. To force her to get it. If she’s not willing to take care of MIL 24/7 then she can’t call all the shots and DH can’t offer you up as a servant.
And about being hurt and angry. You’ve been plenty of both. You have practically begged for communication.
I strongly agree with you about the hurricane season and if June to Sept is the season then that’s when she’s gone. And if there are no storms then Hallelujah there were no storms.
How about letting DH go put up his grab bar and invite SIL to come to your house for a meeting? Why would you have to meet today at MIL house?
Perhaps it’s time to act like an equal partner and to give MIL a subtle sign of new things in the air.
Don’t go have a meeting where you aren’t comfortable. SIL needs to acknowledge she needs help. Having the meeting at a neutral place or your home is a good start.
BIL is there so he can watch MIL if that’s an issue which it shouldn’t be.
Or meet tomorrow afternoon at a resturant or even at the church? Someplace quiet so you can talk freely and without too much interruption.
If you set your intention properly then it should be successful. Set it up as a first meeting. Not “THE” meeting.
Decide to all get on the same page. Each person needs to be heard and respected.
You have been very disrespected and isn’t it ironic that is how MIL feels too?
After you get things worked out, then the THREE of you let MIL know what the plan is. You don’t ask her. You tell her what you are willing to do. She can think it over and if she refuses ok. You are out or perhaps you compromise on something else. Whatever. You are not her servant. Your life is respected.
You let her know what you are each willing to do. No assignments coming in from across the country.
And it’s a work in progress. You can tell them 90% of what needs to be set up but of course life events happen that are not known in advance. Those can be worked out and added to the list for any repeat of the same issue. Don’t set yourself up as this is Dorkers plan where they are waiting to say this isn’t working. All three need to buy in. And if it’s more than you can see yourself doing then say so.
You are doing a great job dear Dorker. Thank you for allowing us to be part of your journey.
MIDKID like you ... DH has worked long hard hours .. hard work .. blue collar .. and I did the rest. Literally. All through the years. No, I don't have a college degree, or any other pedigree to show my efforts .. other than .. trying to be of support to him so he could do what he needs to do .. and raise a family. That's it.
I wish there was a way to bullet it all out, in some cohesive manner .. I guess I'm just too emotionally vested in it all, to be able to make any kinda sense of it all. I don't know.
I was trying to express to DH before he left to head that way .. the matter that .. as told to the pastor .. I don't mind helping .. these are all people I love .. but .. I can't be the dumping ground for it all. He said these words, which tells me, he truly .. DOES NOT GET IT. His words: "No, it's just .. it's kinda like .. for you .. the only thing that works is mom is shipped outta here ... I agree with you Dorker . ... I hate it that she will be left there all alone .. but no one is going to force that issue .. she does NOT want to leave her home .. and short of that, that's the ONLY thing that works for you".
He truly does not "get it".
I said to him (AGAIN). NO ... my thoughts on that are this. I think it's reckless and irresponsible as hell to continue with that as the setting .. but it's NOT my decision and I have my brain fully wrapped around that ... you are on the wrong page if you think that is the ONLY thing that works for me. So what remains DH? She remains in her home .. and the need, the incredible need that exists to support that, how does that get spoken to?
The above were my responses to that.
His answer: "Well you seem to have this .. need .. that everything be put in a nice little compartment of who does what and when .. it doesn't work that way .. so Sister flies home and a week later .. mom is besieged with a bout of sickness that renders her unable to care for herself .. we have to wing it, as best we can .. I'll have to go out there at night .. and try to work with her, when I'm done working .. that's all we can do.
Me: "OK, . so who helps her in the daytime ...??.....who goes to get an rx for her, who goes to take her to the doctor when she isn't getting better in a few days .. who goes to pick up some supplies for her, .. there is no clarity at all in any of it .. never has been .. there are no clearly defined roles in any of it".
Him: (not argumentative or defensive like) "So what do you propose .. are there some little fairies somewhere that we turn loose to answer to all that, .. there isn't anyone .. so what is it you propose.
Me: I don't know the answers .. but I know there needs to be some dialogue .. a great for instance that comes to mind at least for me ... I proposed at one point that her groceries be delivered to her ... that takes the onus off the very few of us that are here to support her, to take care of that .. that got dismissed of course, as do most thing I suggest .. but listen to that as a proposal .. at least the person who went yesterday and got her groceries for her and her rx's and also picked up her dog food, isn't now back in the road seeing to the above as to sickness. The groceries or whatever are already spoken for, now MIL is sick and needs attention in some way .. and so there is no one person that has already been burdened with getting her groceries for her. It's done. I have in mind .. oh I dunno .. DD has said she would help .. a great place we could insert her help would be under the dog category .. that lessens any risk of MIL being in the midst of sick kids .. for the most part .. or the risk of kids that may not yet be sick but may at any moment get sick .. so the dog treats are in and needing picked up, the dog category is something DD has firmly signed on for .. she goes to get it .. so the og is falling ill, and needing attention, that falls under DD and what she has signed on for, she goes to get the dog and take him to the vet ... that kinda thing. I don't know, let's be innovative here and come up with some solutions something that looks a little more like order and organization .. that's what I've asked .. and it gets pooey'd.
He then responds: "I just don't have the time to get all over wrought about all this stuff .. ".
Me: Of course not.. therein lies the inherent problem in the whole thing .. you don't have the time to get over wrought over it all, nor do you have the time to address the very real things like above that crop up .. and so there you have it .. an old frail woman that has many many many needs is high maintenance, as is her dog .. and you .. the only one to speak to it.. absent my presence.
He left, .. to go install grab bars, said he'd talk to his sister. We will see.
He did agree that .. with his mom being upset with me ......... (I guess she's only recently been given word that Dorker is out .. not sure what she thought was the case for all these months .. but I guess, when the decision was made to leave her be, in her home, maybe she uttered something to the tune of, ...".....and I'll call on Dorker when I need something, I'll be fine", .. and got a response of "uh .. no ... ma .. dorker isn't in this pic anymore, shes's done with it". Sounds like that's about how it all played out, but I don't know. So . he did utter the words it might be best .. at least for right now, this all get hashed out .. w/Sister first .. and then go from there.
So now for me to try to organize some kinda means of being cohesive and to the point as to the categories that need someone speaking to them .. and how.
I'm sure you KNOW this, but by very definition, a Narcissist cannot "see" beyond themselves. Truly. The outside world just doesn't interest or have a anything in it that "includes them". Did you ever read "The Devil wears Prada?" Miranda Priestly is the absolute narcissist in the book. I KNOW it's just a book, but that character is SO over the top, I'm pretty sure the author has known her fair share of people who truly (and incorrectly) think the WORLD revolves around them. I think your MIL falls in this category. So does mine. When confronted with "truths"---they either start to cry or begin to lay blame all around. And take a ridiculous stand on being "independent"...or worse yet, guilting. THEY NEVER, EVER TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS/SITUATIONS!!!
The story of you going to the "drive through" prayer mtg kind of broke my heart. DH should be aware of your pain and frustration and praying WITH you daily!! IMHO. HE can "church" strangers, but doesn't take care of home first. That's just wrong. He likely does it to cover his feelings of inadequacy.
I think a meeting with all hands on board, with a bullet point agenda that you do NOT deviate from is a great idea. Maybe your pastor could come and play the role of mediator? I learned from a recent 'all hands' mtg with my sibs I should have had a social worker or some kind of mediator there. Too many emotions.
And drive your own car. At all functions with my MIL I take myself. When she has said too much to me--I walk. Everybody knows she's like this, and since DH will NOT stand up for me, it's been the best way to cope. I don't want to get angry and lose it. I have NEVER been anything but kind to my MIL--even at the risk of my own health and mental stability. No one protects me, so I self protect.
IF you can get DH and SIL on the same page...truly, it would be wonderful. I think you have a lot to say, but since you've stepped out, maybe maintaining silence on your part would be best, unless it is to make a point of something no one is aware of.
If the family gangs up on your b/c you had bigger and more pressing responsibilities than fussing one old angry, bitter lady---walk away. I know it seems childish, but it works. Better to leave hot, angry words unspoken.
Your story has given me much pause for thought, as I see my MIL failing (88) and my own mother really failing (also 88). They BOTH wants stuff they can't have. It's sad.
We all understand your hurt, and anger and acknowledge that. I think a HUGE part in your inability to let go of past hurts of the last year are that you in fact, were NEVER thanked or shown appreciation. Such a simple words: Thank you. And yet, as caregivers, we rarely hear them.
Feel what you need to feel, but don't let it become a cloud you carry. Your MIL will die, and sooner rather than later. You'll look back and you will feel real grief over the loss of a once loving and wonderful relationship. I hope that you know that.
As far as your daughter being dragged into this--well, I have 4 daughters and a DIL and they will "criticize me" over things I have or haven't done and I do get hurt, I'm probably overly sensitive, but I try to let them say what they feel they need to say and then process it and move on.
Have you been seeing your therapist?? Time for a checkup.
And, FWIW, at the last attorney's apt to get our wills done, we were chatting with the attorney. He asked if I worked, and I hesitated, b/c although I have worked PT most years in the past, I never finished my college degree, and so have never had a "profession". DH has shot through the ranks, worked crazy long hours, travels about 70% of the time and I stayed home all those years and raised 5 kids and neighbor kids and did PTA and school mtgs, basically DH worked and I did ALL THE REST. DH cannot even make a PBJ. Attorney looked at us and said "well, DH, you contributed about 2% to the "family", Midkid did about 98%." DH was angry, but attorney had the numbers right there to prove it.
I can tell you that DH has been MUCH more appreciative after hearing that from someone who isn't me.
I just wish you the best tomorrow. It's going to be very, very hard.
We were typing at the same time.
Good Luck on whatever you decide.
I am sure you will handle the situation with grace, should you go. You do seem to be able to control your temper.
Good Luck today.
Personally, I don’t think you need to apologize for being on edge in the aftermath of a storm. Your feelings are normal.
I think there was an episode where MIL slid off the bed while getting in or out of bed. The excuse was your flooring. *eye roll*. This may have been another time she stayed with you guys, but think it was the Hurricane debacle. DH and MIL would be quite the pair weathering a storm alone. Thinking we are just gonna get clipped here or an unforeseen rapid intensification. Suddenly, you are trapped, too late to evacuate, severe damage to the home, 2 weeks without power, no available fuel.....
Yes, reasonably healthy adults can adapt and make it although very, very unpleasant. The sick and vulnerable, or reasonably sane individuals should have a plan. IMO
I hope if you join DH on this visit, everyone is calm, and that you don’t loose your cool.
That's truly truly honestly how I see it going for me. 1 against the 3 of them .. and me standing there still ....
As I depart there, .. and nothing solved, saying to all of them, "Wish you all the greatest, .. and love you all dearly, but yes, I'm out, hurt feelings and all, absent any willingness to address what my participation requires".
So with that in mind, I was out and about moments ago. My husband, is the lead ministry for a program at our church called "Drive Thru Prayer". What that is, .. he and others .. stand out in the front drive of our church and hold signs up .. and any passers by that are in need of prayer and guidance .. can pull in and there are those there, participants of the program (sadly lacking in numbers of participants) that do the praying for those in need/hurt/stress/anguish/pain, whatever the case might be that would call them to that service, and they pull in and get prayed for.
So .. I went by there, for the same. I do believe in prayer .. and so what better setting.
I'm quite sure, in fact, I guarantee, my husband would've preferred this be kept in house .. but I don't care. My God is a big God and he's there for all of us, not just the passers by that need prayer, he's there for me and my hurts also.
DH knew .. I'm sure .. when he saw my car pull in, why I was there. He and the other two participants in this ministry came to my car. One of those participants is the new pastor of our church.
So I began to talk, .. and tell some of what this is all about and ask for prayer and guidance. DH was there, standing right there at my car also .. and offered to walk away .. and I asked him to do so, so that there could be some objectivity to the matters at hand .. but he did not walk away.
They did, all of them offer up prayer .. and then when all was said and done DH as well as the other participant in this ministry (another congregant of our church) walked away and that left solely me and the pastor to talk.
And so we talked at length, a little more about it all, and he said it sounds to him almost like perhaps that DH and I need to .. at least at first .. sit down with the sister and all of us get on more of a page that is consistent .. told the pastor I've asked repeatedly and that it doesn't happen. He said that, to him, it sounds as though ... maybe if a more united front could be presented to the mother .. as to the fact that her needs are greater as she ages .. she and her dog both .. and that we want to support her .. and help her in her waning years but we need her to help us to help her and part of that is we need her flexibility in allowing for add'l help .. and that we all need to be on the same page .. all of us ... DH, myself and DH's sister.
I agree .. but haven't been able to make that happen. Told the pastor this.
He said that my husband needs to be my strongest advocate in this .. and that it sounds as if he hasn't been and I agreed. He said that he would speak to him about that role he should be playing.
So as things stand at the moment, I am pondering it all. He is at drive thru prayer and will finish shortly and he is to go install another grab bar at MIL's house. And he said in passing last night, "maybe you need to go out there when I go and all of us sit down and hash some of this through". I didn't answer to it when that was said in passing and I didn't even see him this morning, he was up and gone early for prayer breakfast Saturday and for Drive Thru Prayer .. so I haven't answered as to whether I intend to go with him, .. as he goes to install another grab bar.
But I'm inclined at this point to think the pastor is right, .. perhaps a meeting of the minds of the support structure, if that can happen ... somehow in it all ,.. needs to first be in place.
See above .. as to how I think things will look, if you were a fly on the wall to watch it all.
So .. if anyone is present .. and cares to weigh in ... I'd love to hear it.
But now you appear to be waffling on how to go forward. You've recently found out that everyone is mad at you for not continuing to step and fetch for MIL, as you did for 15 years. You wish you still had relationships with SIL and MIL. It is tense in your home, because H finally stated what you've suspected; that he wants (and thinks!) that you should continue to be MIL's slave. As far as your D goes, she is naive as you have said. She'll find out soon enough when she tires of being MIL's slave.
You are all wrapped up in the hurricane scenario now. That is only part of the picture. Like you wrote, tell them how you don't do well in hurricane situations, and that the next time there is one heading for FL, that you will be evacuating. Problem solved! MIL becomes H's problem, which is as it should be.
Really, today is your best chance to lay it all out for them. You SAY you don't care about MIL and what happens to her, but you do. Setting boundaries is NOT the same as not caring (which is what the family seems to think). And you know that!
Remember, you have come SO FAR in these last 9 months. I am really hoping that you go over to MIL's with H today and have the conversation that should have happened months ago. You can do it. We're all rooting for you!
Not you find that there is anger at you. I think it would be useful to face that anger head on and say "two can play at this "I won't hear of it" thing."
The price of your participation is that there be a plan. If they won't plan, you will continue not to help. And you need to tell them that YOU have a plan for next hurricane season which involves not being home.
DH was here, .. but he weathers chaos and heat and humdity and lack of creature comforts .. a whole lot better than I do. He hunts .. he's accustomed to living in the woods with little to no accouterments. Likes it. Not a problem for him. MIL .. she keeps her a/c, routinely, on about 78 or 80 .. even on a normal day .. so the heat/humidity to her, not an issue. I guess, for her, the only downfall was that she wasn't in her own home .. and ... she didn't have anyone captive to conversate with .. nro did she have anyone at her elbow, at her service, to do for her. But .. the heat/humidity .. a non issue to her.
It's me that turns into a not so pleasant to be around beast. And I know that about me, thus I limit my interactions with almost anyone, who would be someone needy in my world. DH self sufficient, he can go fix his own sandwich . his own cup of coffee .. he does so.
No, here's how that would go, on that specific topic .. there are many topics to cover but on this specific one, and me ganged up on .. by all parties involved (don't have a lot of faith that I'd have any standing in any set up above).
Me: "Gee MIL sorry you felt hurt the last time you sheltered in our house for that storm, those are so upleasant and ya know, .. I'm just not real pleasant to be around. So let's come up with a plan so we don't have that situation again. My proposition .. I say .. let's plan that you are out of here on a plane to SIL's .. maybe the day hurricane season begins, hence forward .. and/or .. ya know, let's go investigate some nice AL's i the area, to see if they have programs to shelter the elderly in the event of a storm and evacuation orders .. those are the two ideas that come to mind for me, what are your thoughts".
MIL: "Well I have been FL born and raised ..... I can stay right here .. and I'll be fine .. now I don't want you guys coming this way to get me .. I will stay right here and I will manage".
Me: "No, as you know, your area is generally under evacuation orders in the event of a storm .. and so it's really not practical as a plan .. that doesn't work".
MIL: "Well so and so across the street, they didn't leave .. so and so next door, they didn't leave they stayed right here, and I will too".
ME: "So and so across the street and so and so next door, are all a whole lot more mobile than you, .. and don't have the health issues you do .. and so in the event the only way out was to walk God FORBID .. they could actually do it .. they are able to, thus the reason the sherriff's don't come in and drag them out .. they are able to leave if the worst of the worst happens and a tree falls on their house and splits their roof .. they can actually get out on foot . if they have to, you can't, .. and it puts us in danger, to have to try to navigate to come get you in the event of the worst of the worst .. so .. no that's not really a plan at all, so ..
SIL: "I know, she's just so stubborn .. I don't know what we're going to do with her.
DH: "It's not all that bad .. I mean.. we'll just come get you and bring you to our house .. and we'll all just make the best of it, that's all we can do".
ME: "No, that's not a plan ... we've done that, and obviously MIL was unhappy with that as an approach .. and so that doesn't really work, let's .. back to my original proposals .. which one do you agree maybe would be more workable for you, should we go ahead and reserve your plan fare now, . hurricane season begins such and such date, we can have you all packed and ready to fly out and you can avoid the whole thing . or should we maybe make a list of AL's in the area that we can have on standby in the event of the above'.
MIL: "Well I'm not doing that, you guys will just have to understand that I will be fine, I will manage, I am never coming to your house again, that's for sure .. I won't subject myself to that again ever. I will stay right here and I'll be just fine".
DH: "It'll be fine .. we'll just all do the best we can .. that's all we can do, let it go Dorker".
ME: "No, that's the crux of the whole problem here, all of you fail to *make a plan* .. and that doesn't work for me".
SIL: "She's just so stubborn .. I don't know mom .. what are we going to do with you".
The above synopsis is just about how it all goes. And I can then what ..??...get mad and storm out, because no plan is forthcoming and we're right back where we were to begin with.
I can tell you what will happen the next time, first and foremost, I will not be any part of being here. MIL and all other minutia aside .............. I don't like weathering the things, .. it was scary to me, .. listening to that wind howl and wail .. outside and you just know any minute a tree, .. not just a limb .. a tree is going to come sailing thru a window somewhere . if not right down on top of and into your roof and split your house .. it scares me .. put aside the whole comfortableness issue. I won't be here.
I remember last time, ... the looking for a hotel and whether to consider MIL in that equation .. first off they fill up for miles and miles around .. and so then you have to farther and farther away to even find vacancy .. but then .. having to take MIL into consideration . now you need a hotel where there is an elevator (I can stay just about anywhere, I don't require 4 star accommodations) .. need one that has an elevator, she can't do stairs, need one with ADA bathroom .. need one that will allow pets .. that limits the whole search thing .. and so the whole thing .. coupled with a storm bearing in your direction and stress thereof .. and what to do about the provisions needed .. if we stay here, go get that all done and taken care of, decide whether to put MIL on a plane outta here .. stay here .. don't stay here .. all of it. Enough to make even the sanest individual spin like a top out of control.
My mom has moved to SC .. the mountains of SC .. and It's been said time and time again, we have that same situation again, that's where you'll find me, days and days ahead of time, I won't stick around and wonder/ponder where's it going, does it impact us .. do I do this, do I do that .. nope, I'm out. Have said it and I mean it. I will be gone.
I won't have to concern myself with dogs and stairs and elevators and hotels and ADA bathrooms, .. I will be found at my mom's in the mountains of SC .. safely away from the crux of the whole thing.
So there is a "plan".
I guess I can word it .. and avoid all the above useless dialogue, as such:
"Tell ya what, next time, if there is a next time, you and DH work it out as to what goes on, I will be outta here, .. ".
Still leaves her (but that's not on me) .. here in our house, .. pretty much twisting in the wind .. as to her well being and so forth .. DH .. just not one to engage and be present in the moment .. and dote on his mom .. "ma would you like a bowl of cereal .. do you want strawberries in it, or bananas .. do you want some OJ .. how bout a cup of coffee .. hey has your dog eaten .. would you like me to do that for you, oh here are your pills, go ahead and get those lined out .. oh and here's a magazine for you to peruse while you eat", and then sit and listen attentively with her .. as she drones on and on and on and on. He AINT gonna be about that ...
But that's on him, not on me.
**** Big hint here, the above as a "plan" isn't going to excite her either, my departure from the whole scene. What she wants, but won't come out and say it .. is that she be left alone in her home to manage .. that wont' happen .. her son and daughter would go get her and tie her up if that was her stance and drag her outta there .. that won't happen. Short of that .. she will come here .. but it's enough for an old frail lady to be here, out of her own element and comfort level .. can't someone be at her elbow to be at her service, as to her dog and her needs. That's what she wants .. in the event of the above .. and that won't happen because her son just isn't in the moment, present and engaged like that, not how he's wired .. he just isn't. And I will be tucked away in SC .. and YD .. likely to be out partying with her buddies sheltered with friends .. and DD and company .. they will .. always .. default to TN as to evacuation .. her husband has family there, so they won't be around. OD .. she has friends that live more central in the state not as close to the coast, and so that's where she and her s/o go to evacuate .. so she isn't around either. It will be merely DH and his mom. DH with his "oh it aint that bad, we'll just do the best we can".***
We'll set up what you need for right now, face to face and stop this charade of you " mentioning" stuff to SIL who then bombarded us with your
" needs" most of which you then don't comply with. You need to tell us directly what you need and we'll get it to you over the course of the next 10 days. This allows us to plan our time and not waste gas and time going out and getting you one item",
Can you do this, Dorker? Not angry, not defensive. Just the facts.
And no round about locutions like " you don't need to be living alone". Straightforward language.
As I see it, there are two ways we can go in having you not exposed to the danger of hurricanes, or to my evil demeanor during them ( chuckle fondly here). One is that you could go and stay with SIL starting the day before the beginning of hurricane season, and stay til then end. The other choice is for you to reside, temporarily of course, at an AL here in Florida during that time. Either way, there would be someone around to care for you and the storms would affect you. Which of those choices appeals to you more.? We really can't risk having you over there, alone, during these storms anymore. You're putting OUR lives in danger trying to rescue you".
I rather like his idea of your going along to MIL's today to force the issue of the four of you having the discussion that has been postponed for months. I doubt H will force the discussion with his sister and mother, otherwise, because he's had SO many chances over the months that SIL has been here and still hasn't done it. Somehow it was never the right time. Yes, there is the possibility that they could gang up on you, but knowing you have all of our support here, including some very good responses to them from this board, please consider forcing that discussion anyway. There may not be another time, and you will never have today's chance to clear the air again.
Talk about a stance of not wanting MIL anywhere in the state of FL near any coast .. during a hurricane ... which is my stance. I SHOULD BE ONE WHO TAKES THAT ADVICE for myself! I should be gone. I don't weather them well, at all. Days of power loss, ... cooking anything of sustenance, even your obligatory first cup of coffee in the morning, which is a must for me, on a camp stove outside .. in the muggy heat that you tried all night to sleep in but couldn't, so now lack of sleep and a full day of looking forward to the same. No internet to use the computer to be in touch with the outside world .. no TV .. loud generator running, powering at least the lights so you can see to get around in the night hours ... cords outstretched in the house everywhere .. windows open to try to get ventilation .. but there isn't any ... fans blowing .. to at least circulate some wet/hot/humid air. IT'S MISERABLE to have to do. Nobody likes it, and as someone else said earlier ... nerves are frayed, tensions tight, everybody is uncomfortable .. biting your lip. That's me.
I remember it very well, when she was here. Sheltering from that specific storm, the last one. In fact, I'd tried .. and succeeded, had a refundable plane fare reserved and paid for .. but she did NOT want to have to leave .. her saying (unreasonable on her part) "I've lived in FL all my life, I can just stay home, I'll be fine .. ". You weren't always 87 years old, with mobility issues.
She was pushed .. into a corner on the above, by me. Her daughter, .. also trying to convince her, that's what she's going to need to do. Her son .. not much as to persuasion but at least not fighting me on it ..
My thoughts on it, .. at the time, .. one never knows if they will have to evacuate and if they do, they then can go sit in gridlock on the highways for hours ..
I can do that, .. don't want to, but I can do it .. sit in gridlock for hours .. to try to get out of harm's way .. and hotel rooms book up .. and so you can't even get a hotel room, for hours and hours away. She can't weather that. I could just see the damn thing wobbling closer and closer in our direction and a decision made on our parts .. that yes we are now leaving .. (I had hotel room reserved, in two different directions, but both were hours away .. that's all that was available). So now we load up into our car, all that is precious to us ... as well as this feeble old woman with mobility and blood clotting issues and her dog .. a dog that has to relieve himself every couple of hours and be re-hydrated, .. a MIL that has to take Lasix ... and the same with her, and sit in gridlock on the highway for hours. No, she isn't a candidate for that kinda set up. Thus, I bought a "refundable/can cancel" airline ticket for her, and pushed that agenda .. and watched the thing wobble around to try to figure if we all are in it's site or are we all clear here.
DH .. his stance on the above was that it was my call to make, .. if I want to get her on that plane .. and out of here .. then that's what we'll do. All the while her resisting that as a notion of something necessary. Her words, over and over, "I have weathered storms in FL all my life .. I'll weather this one, right at home .. I'll be fine". No .. her area gets evacuation orders, .. because she lives close to an area that may flood in weather events. And I know that. So she would be ordered to evacuate .. and that means she'd be here .. she and her dog. See above, cords outstretched everywhere (trip hazards for her) .. mobility issues .. not really able to help herself here .. she and her dog.
I finally made the call, it was mine to make .. that I'd cancel the flight .. because it looked as though the storm had it's sites on some other locale .. not here. It was my call to make, and that's the call I made. Cancelled it.
But then it began to wobble some more .. and too late now for a flight out .. and the order given as to evac of the area where she lives .. now we had no choice but to bring her here. Which is what we did.
Was I pleasant and welcoming and at her elbow/service at every turn. Nope. Am I sorry that I was less than. No, I really am not.
I was not overly ugly to her, I would never be, to anyone. But I was not overly warm and welcoming either. I don't weather these things real well myself, maybe a plane ticket should be on standby for ME .. rather than MIL. MIL and DH can stay behind and weather it all, maybe I'LL BE THE ONE ON THE PLANE OUTTA HERE next time.
First to admit, I am not pleasant when my creature comforts are taken from my orbit. The difference there is that no one else in my orbit .. is dependent upon me for their every move .. and as such, doesn't have to be at my elbow for me to be of service to them, they are self sufficient.... she is not. But of course, she's the last one to know that she is not self sufficient with her "I have weathered storms all my life .. I'll weather this one".
Am I guilty of getting in my car and being gone, a LOT. Yes, absolutely. There was a/c in my car, .. and I could plug in my cell phone to charge it, and actually use a means to reach the outside world .. (could do the same here, with the loud generator running .. and cords outstretched everywhere, but it's hot and muggy here and I'm susceptible to be at MIL's service to remain here). To fix her something to eat, .. to get her dog something to eat, to let her dog out, let her dog in .. make sure her dog has water in his bowl .. and to listen to her (she likes to talk, A LOT) drone on and on and on and on.
No I am not a pleasant person to be around in these kinds of situations. Proud of that? No, .. but it is what it is.
Was I overtly mean to her? No, absolutely not. Was I indifferent and maybe aloof and not present and certainly not helpful to her? Sure .. guilty. I was gone .. a LOT .. finding refuge in a car that I could crank and turn on a/c and cool off and escape this madness upon madness of living the aftermath of it all, for days and days.
So .. how does one apologize for the above. "Gee sorry that I wasn't at your elbow to be at your beckon call, given the opportunity to do it over .. I .. would DO THE SAME THING .. so .. ya know .. my assertions to you that maybe you better plan to be in IL with your daughter at the time of year that hurricanes roll around .. might wanna consider it . because THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE YOU HAVE TO BE .. in the event of the above and if you're looking for warm southern hospitality and someone captive to conversate with .. it aint gonna be me, sorry/not sorry you felt hurt".
I can remember it all very well, how it all played out. I mean, things like, lunchtime and time to have a sandwich .. if I was making myself one, I'd offer her one .. but I'm hot and miserable and in general .. .I can eat a grape or two .. and be done .. I'm not wanting to expend a whole lot of energy to do anything and I sure don't have much appetite. So no, I wasn't at the ready to prepare her every meal .. I mean afterall this is someone who touts the whole, "Now I will manage, I can manage". SO DO IT THEN. Manage. You need a sandwich .. you know my kitchen .. have at it. You need a bowl of cereal . you know my kitchen, go for it.
So .. in reflecting on it all, I wonder what the specific grievance is .. I guess my demeanor during that time. And I really .. in truth .. cannot honestly and heartfelt apologize for my demeanor. In doing so, one would infer that I find fault with how I behaved and I don't. ........ won't ............ I would be the same person given the same circumstances again. Can't help it, don't want to.
The above is the only thing I'm guilty of in it all. And it's who I am. Yes, I should be the one with a plane fare on standby . in the event of another weather event ..and should clear out (and I will, that has been said repeatedly). I won't be here.
But apologies .. for the fact that MIL is "SO HURT" over how that went when she stayed here to shelter from the storm .. nah .. I dunno.
I remember being hounded to death (the only means SIL had to reach her mother was via DH and texting him and you know how that goes .. or me .. so guess who got the countless texts of messages to try to relay from SIL to MIL, me. At that time, there was question as to whether MIL was willing to go and get her scheduled chest xray for some mysterious cough that was relentless and wouldn't let up.. her not wanting to go .. just doesn't care .. will keep coughing .. whatever .. and her daughter 1K miles away .. having a coronary herself that her mother would sluff off above .. and so the needless/endless texts over that issue (and MIL doesn't text, so all of this would have to be relayed to MIL .. via me, reading what SIL would have to say and/or handing MIL my cell to read it herself and then responding .. for her/her proxy). DH .. oh he wasn't here .. he had this to do or that to do .. or .. if he was here ... I'd still get texts, "Trying to reach brother about thus and so", him sitting right here .. but .. playing on his phone and not looking at texts, or otherwise occupied by things here .. needing to re-gas up the generator .. whatever. AND SIL with her relentless hounding that we need to get out to MIL's house .. and asses damage .. and report back .. and we need to get out to MIL's house and empty the contents of her fridge (perishables) all with urgency ..
Weathering all of the above, not going so well with me ..
I just wasn't present a lot. Guilty as charged.
So, will be interesting to see how that whole saga gets answered to, by me. I really, honestly, don't know, as I sit here at this moment.
Because I don't feel apologetic about any of it .. and given the chance, it'd be the same again .. I truly .. do the very best I can in such circumstances, .. which .. admittedly ain't real good.
I've tried the last couple of days to not even bring it up at all with DH .... just beaten and battered with the whole thing.
DH tonight, brought it up that he has to head out to his mom's tomorrow to install an additional grab bar somewhere, and that he intends to talk with his sister and his mom about the new change of plans .. that will leave her there. Not at all that he is going to be the bad guy and dig in his heels and demand she get on that plane with her daughter, no .. not at all.
But he intends to propose real scenarios and what of the details as we go forward. As in .. "alright guys .. you get on that plane and are gone a week and mom gets besieged a week or so later, with a bout of diarrhea for instance .. what are you guys proposing the plan of action to be, because we know mother gets weakened and she doesn't hydrate as she should .. and she falls, .. what's the plan?
Don't think for a minute his going down that road then leads to, "well then I don't sign off on this whole set up". Nope. He's not going there .. it would be futile anyway. Probably the answer will be MIL's patt answer she always gives .. "Well I will manage, I know what I need to do and I will do it, I will manage".
I think he has his head firmly wrapped around the whole fact this is going to take a catastrophe and the choice out of her hand, to uproot her from her home one way or the other. So the above . is kinda wasted breath really in even asking it.
I then went on to ask him, "I hear from DD that they both are quite upset and angry with me".
He answered: "They are yes .. they both are hurt and upset .. that you have exited the whole thing".
I asked: "And what is your understanding of why I exited the whole thing, what's your perception of the reasons why".
He answered: "As I told my mom when she was telling me how disappointed and hurt she is that you are no longer in it .. mom .. when Dorker takes her time up to repeatedly haul you to doctors for procedures and tests and medications that you don't follow through on .. you're basically wasting her time". He goes on to say "She sat there, kinda listening .. with her mouth agape .. kinda like she couldn't dispute what was just said to her".
I answered that: "The above, what you said .. but also the fact that the need was increasing and I implored all of you, her included that we need more help .. and it was flat out refused/rejected by her, .. and kinda rudely .. and you two . both your sister and you .. didn't heed what was said as needed in it all, that was the straw that broke the very tired worn camel's back".
Him: "I get it .. I have told you all along I get it .. you did this for 15 years .. and you saw the need increasing more and more .. and she wouldn't accept outside help .. I'm on your side, I get it .. I have defended you to them .. ".
I said: "And I hear your mom is upset with me something about the whole hurricane stay here? Know anything about that?".
Him: (shaking his head in disgust) "Mom .. she's so damned dramatic .. we all know how drama queen she is .. she said to me that she will never come to our house again, after the way she was treated here during her stay over the hurricane .. and I reminded her of all that Dorker did for her .. the stay prior when her heat when out in the winter .. the stay prior to that in the prior year .. when there was a hurricane bearing down .. and that Dorker was the one who hauled her home, because I wasn't available . once the all clear was given .. and Dorker was the one who went and replaced her perishables for her fridge (absence of power for days .. had to throw out perishables) .. Dorker was the one who hired a lawn guy to come and clean up the yard debris ....she sat there again .. her mouth kinda hanging open .. listening .. she's just so dramatic .. you know how she is, we all know how she is ... nobody puts a lot of credence in it".
I said to him: "Well I know that DD has tried to encourage your sister to call me .. and let's try to mend some hurt feelings here .. and she hasn't done so".
He said: "Well call her then .. I'm going there tomorrow to install a grab bar, you go with me .. we'll sit down with her".
I have not answered as to any intention thereof .. I think . personally .. I would like to sit down with SIL if that's possible, but only with SIL, at least initially .. I do not want to put myself in any situation where it's perceived that I am being overly harsh towards MIL and maybe saying things they all gang up on me .. not putting myself in that spot.
I like Barb's approach .. "want my help in it .. make a damn plan . not this haphazard crap, make a plan".
Remember the other daughter Dorker said had problems when she was growing up? Maybe she tried to be an independent actor and was stifled by the dysfunction. Drugs etc are an escape, just like we are suggesting Dorker get away briefly. Hmm, makes me think that this whole scenario has been around for decades.