I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
On an upbeat note, my friend and former neighbour, iller than MIL but not by a huge amount, now that she is recovered from a serious setback and therefore has more energy to do any practical thinking, is looking more constructively on her daughter's plan to move her into permanent residential care. She doesn't like it, but she is accepting it. You never know, maybe MIL too is tired of all the performance and white-knuckle moments and ready to accept necessary changes, however grudgingly. No one ever said they had to be whoopee-doo-ing about giving up their homes, after all - just facing facts.
And as you point out whether MIL stays in Florida or travels to IL it’s not your worry.
Have a wonderful weekend Dorker.
I haven't heard anymore on plans to head to SIL's home, once the recooping is done from this latest.
Wouldn't surprise me either, if that's now off the table, and MIL is deemed "she's doing okay", and left to "manage" on her own, yet again. Wouldn't surprise me in the least.
To be honest, I'm so far removed from the daily grind of it all, that I defer to them and their decisions on it. I don't think the above would be the right decision, of course. But .. I have taken a clear stance in it all, that it's more than I am willing to manage. If she's deemed "she's doing okay", and left to "manage on her own", then so be it. That's their decision to make certainly. STILL in no way means that I have to step up to the plate. I won't.
Either she is fine, ..and great .. good on her if that's the case, that's what she wants more than anything. Hooray .. if that's the case. Either she's fine .. and indeed will manage on her own, .. or she won't .. (which is what my belief is) .. and then they can do what they need to from that point (nothing more than likely, as has been the case for a few years now as things progress downhill). So be it.
As to the dog, and transport, that too, I'm not loosing any sleep over the whole thing. I have my doubts any need will be present for transport of either MIL or the dog ... they'll be staying put.
SIGH
All this fuss over a dog! I surely wouldn't agree to take a 20+ hour car trip with Vegetarian Precious. MIL should pay for an animal transport company to take the dog to IL.
But I'm starting to also really wonder if MIL will really go to IL. As someone wrote, it will be preferable to a facility in her mind, but the either-or choice may never be presented to her. SIL may leave when she figures MIL can "manage" on her own again.
Did you say that SIL and MIL don't have a great relationship? Hasn't MIL complained about SIL to you? Don't you think SIL will be very happy to get away from MIL eventually? She's been there for what, over 7 weeks now? I really doubt that the MIL trip to IL will ever occur.
Wondering how MIL MOHS went?
How is she doing?
I thought about the dog transport situation, about 5 years ago we had a Labrador retriever that needed to find a new home, I went online and found a company that came to my home, picked dog up, stopped for potty breaks and drinks/food every 2 hours, all the way from Az to Tx to deliver him to his new person. They had a converted motor home that was large kennels. Lovely women and I felt completely comforted knowing my beloved dog was going to be transported by dog lovers. There were many reports at the time of lost, injured and killed dogs on the airlines, so I was not going to put him in the position of potentially being harmed as he could be ornery with strangers. Just a thought.
I hope for all involved that your MIL decides that a facility would be the best solution and stops being such a pickle. Hope springs eternal, right!
If it comes to that .. absolutely .. we would do it. Ridiculous, yes. But we'd do it.
MIL .. IMO .. not a candidate at all, for a 23 hour car trip. Not unless one has a week to devote to such an endeavor. She can't just sit in the car for hours and hours and hours like that. She wouldn't be able to move when she got there. Not only that, you worry about blood clots from so much inertia. But no one has asked MO of that prospect.
Yes, it does sound as if a "facility" is kinda off the table at this point. And that's' okay too. My only goal here is that MIL needs more help. Period. I can't be that help .. not as much as she needs.
I've said all along through it all, SIL would breeze into town for two of three weeks (that's been status quo for a few years) .. and all would go swimmingly well. Of course it would. Someone there to do every living breathing thing for her. Not a setting where she has to make her own lunch .. and clean it up, .. stay hydrated on her own .. let her dog in and out, and run to the dog treats and so forth store on her own. SIL here to do it all for her. SIL here to mind her meds for her, etc.
She needs more care than I can provide. That's been my gripe all along. SIL would breeze into town and stay for two or three weeks and all would rock along peachy keen. Then off she'd go again .. and things derail.
If SIL is apt to take her into her home (since she doesn't want to move here, and I don't blame her). That works just fine, even better .. as MIL will be happier.
MIL doesn't relish the idea of having to go any-damn where at all. She'd rather stay home, and live alone, hands down, by far. But if she had only two druthers in it all:
a) SIL's home
or
b) a facility
And staying in your home .. alone .. is no longer an option.
She would choose option "a". Begrudgingly.
It will be interesting to see how the required rest/recovery from the leg procedure will deteriorate into the recent improvements in ADLs. Mil is gonna be ripe for a fall after a week off her feet.
I just hoe so much that all the hoopla over the past months will result in forward movement to getting MIL into a place where she can be cared for. It's starting to feel like SIL isn't as 'on board' with placing MIL as she was a few weeks ago.
MIL falls into that latter category. If they don't get that all coveted label for the pooch .. there will be no flight .. she simply won't hear of it.
What a thought provoking conversation.
I can envision, for myself, going quietly into the night. I don't think I could do the Dr. Kevorkian thing .. but I have never been in a state of horrible suffering from some serious terminal illness. Thus I don't judge those that would opt for that as a merciful way out. I don't think it would be for me, but I haven't been there, to walk that path.
But I don't think I would be going for vein ablations and gluten tolerance tests .. and so forth, .. not if I was someone routinely speaking the words "I want the big cloud in the sky to come get me, I don't wanna be here anymore".
It is amazing. Your MIL shows herself to be a tough soldier. I hope your daughters and grands inherited those genes.
Don't know about the hellfire and damnation part but I do see what humans do to each other in this disturbed world.
i do remember the fear of watching bombers flying up the river Thames to bomb London and hiding under my aunt's kitchen table. I don't think I understood what death was at that age but certainly felt the fear. Same thing when we rode the train into London and sped past row upon row of bombed out homes. To this day hearing an air raid siren sends shivers down my spine.
These are the memories and worse that todays' elderly carry with them and subconsciously that adds to the fear of death.
As a hospice nurse I witnessed very peaceful deaths and some that were the opposite.
Now as I creep closer to the end of life I try and think of it as the opposite of birth. I knew nothing about that. Does a baby in the womb fear that passage through the birth canal when they are compressed and unable to breath or being hauled out of Mom's belly during a C section.
Will I be here this time next year? i don't know nor does anyone else so the only thing to do is to live in the moment.
I wish I knew what was on the other side but few get a look and come back to tell the tale.
Respect your elder's fears but don't encourage them.
Hey, I was brought up with the whole "hellfire and damnation" thing. I chose (and choose) not to believe that if there is an omniscient and omnipotent God, that s/he would choose to condemn the greater part of humanity to eternal hellfire. It just never made any sense to me. So death is part of life; my kids and grandkids and hopefully great grandkids will remember me fondly. I hope that my work in the field of education has made a difference to some families.
I think we're pretty typical of our generation.
My daughter has had several horses tranported from Europe and there has not been a problem.
I do hear the disturbing information that there is an attendant in the hold with them armed with a gun in case an animal goes berserk.
I doubt that would shoot MIL's dog though as they have to be confined in a cage. The hold is climate controlled where the nimals are if that is any comfort.
I know he's a dog lover and if he felt that the dogs weren't safe and fairly comfortable, he would have said something. He acted like that was routine, which it is!!
I believe that March 1st is Delta's rollout on the "service animal" restrictions.
The big dust up is MIL's belief that HER dog is super special. I'm sure he/she is a wonderful companion. But it's a dog.
Your saga is racheting down, in many ways. You stepped out, MIL is going downhill, slowly, but surely, and DH and SIL won't deal with the reality. But as long as you don't get drawn back into the fray--good for you.
I will NEVER understand the need some elderly folks have to "soldier through and fight"---at some point, I will give up and go gently into that goodnight. No drama, I hope, and no sucking the life out of my family. that's just me. Maybe that's not normal.
Unfortunately I am ill informed on that topic, transporting your beloved pet, via the cargo hold on a plane. I know that millions do it, . so why the big dust up over doing so. Wish I understood.
Reports are that MIL is finally on the mend .. or getting there. She has now managed to shower without someone to accompany in case she might fall, and she can manage to get herself dressed .. without help. We're about 5 weeks out from the nasty fall, and she is finally now able to do a little more without help. I'm sure it's been a nightmare for SIL.
Today was the MOHS procedure and SIL reports all is well on that front .. they got all the nasty squamous cell cancerous mass. They'll now move on to recooping from that. She's to stay off her feet for a week (which I'm sure will be a set back to the above).
No further word on any move to IL, but I don't ask either.
I did remark, at SIL having reported her mom now able to do more for herself, and her description that her mom still has so much resolve to soldier through and push thru this and get well. My remark was "That's astounding .. especially considering she was routinely saying that she just wants that big cloud in the sky to come get her, .. glad she's got the resolve to soldier through and fight".
But that’s a long-ish way off.
Dorker, as others have said, make plans for a weekend with YOUR mother (you & hubby). Soon. For several reasons:
1.) Hey, you have a mother, too
2.) Work those boundaries, girl!
3.) If MIL/SIL respond by “needing” help from you & hubby THAT weekend, the jig is up — they are unrepentant game players.
I hope I’m wrong about #3. But SIL’s rejection of your recent offers of help (clean out, organization, etc) smells like a chess move. And MIL herself announced that “it’s all about me.”
So the one weekend you & hubby are unavailable....boom. Create some drama.
Not that this would have any bearing on your trip. If the Golden Girls realllly need some extra muscle that weekend, hubby can recruit a church mate or two. Surely a fellow deacon or parishioner owes hubby a favor.
Stay strong, Dorker!
By all means, go visit Your Mother, so they will know that Your Mom is Just as Important as their Mom! Continue to be the gracious gal you've Always been, and give them the dates, a week in advance. Right now, you know the probable time frame of their intended launch, and in all probability, you guys will be driving and delivering her pooch, as you well know that there is No Way it will ever make it on that flight, so if you miss out on their leave date, you will see her soon anyways I'm sure!
That way you can pack up and pull a trailer of her prized possessions if nessassary, and can get in a visit, as well as assist on that end.
I'm so Happy that things are looking up, and now you can have a sigh of relief that things are going as planned. I'm sure the news is bittersweet, but by your accountings, it really is the most appropriate course of action, otherwise, if MIL was to be placed into an Assisted Living place near you, you would still be stuck in the step N fetch role, being orchestrated by SIL daily, and you would Hate it!!You will finally be back in the role of loving DIL and Son, and you can plan on giving SIL Respite and Relief, and will once again enjoy your relationship!
I have high hopes that this plan will eventually come off as planned, and that her Daughter will be more comfortable caring for her in her home, or near by. Good for you Sweetie, now let's all pray that MIL stays on track, and doesn't get sick or have another fall!!! Yay, it sounds like your setting up boundaries and being persistent is finally paying off! Whoo-Hoo!!!
When MIL looks around at her house and possessions, if she starts thinking about the work involved in sorting it all out she could dramatically go off the whole idea of going anywhere. It looks like a monumental task, and she won't be able to face it.
So SIL's telling her: "go to IL and then we'll pop back to see to the house later" is actually not a bad approach. It's crucial to get MIL's attention off even half an idea that she needs to sort her house out before she can leave it.
make your own plans as normal
keep her informed of them
ask her to keep you informed on a Need To Know basis.
It's that happy mean between her telling you nothing at all, and her sending you four hourly streams of consciousness that take you all afternoon to wade through.
And on your side, it would be only courteous and helpful to let her know when you're going to be away or otherwise engaged; but you don't need to "clear" it with her - never apologise, never explain. Not 'cause you're not her friend! - just because it takes too long and it isn't necessary.
I took the "a lot to see to here" to mean getting ready to unload her house. But maybe not? She admits she won't live alone again, so SIL will have to accompany her on that trip back to FL. And then live with her here. It doesn't sound like there will be any looking at facilities in FL for quite a while.
But of course there is a good chance that she will never manage to make it back to FL.
Doesn't sound practical to me, but so be it. I defer, having exited the whole thing, .. to their decisions, and will assist .. where/when I can.
She mentions that her daughter has also offered, should it be necessary to accompany on any flight up that way.
Sounds like plans are in the works, however fluid they may be at this point, without much input and/or info spread DH's way. Again, so be it.
Hmmm...after a few months of nonstop togetherness, SIL might like the plan for MIL coming back to Florida.
I presume this would be the reason(s), at least partly, why MIL mentions that she will stay with SIL for a few months and they will then return .. (also interjecting she will no longer be able to live alone, thus SIL would need to accompany). I haven't gotten caught up in the minutia of whether that is feasible. My personal opinion (which matters to no one) .. she isn't someone who can do a lot of traveling. To expect that she can hop on a plane and go on to IL, stay a few months, then do it again .. not realistic. I don't see it as feasible that she'd be someone who can, every few months, hop onto a plane and scoot back and forth. But if that's what she needs to tell herself to be able to stomach all this, .. for now ... so be it.
As to coming back here to then reside in an ALF. No. I think that SIL foresees that if an ALF has to enter the picture, that should be (her wish anyway) in IL, so she can keep her finger on the pulse of the goings on and stay an active part of her mom's life. So no, as to returning her for an ALF setting.
I think, just from what I gathered hearing DH's conversation with his mom. She maybe envisions that she will no longer be able to live alone .. but what that will look like, at least in her mind's eye ... she will travel to IL, to reside with her daughter for a few months, .. and then after a few months, she and daughter will travel back here, to reside a few months, .. and there you go, back and forth.
Who am I to say? Maybe if her daughter's watchful care can keep her more stable than she's been in recent times, med compliant .. nutrition/hydration, etc etc etc .. maybe she WILL BE ABLE to do that. I happen to think MIL is far too feeble and compromised for all that. But my assessment would be based upon the view from over here, ... where I sit. Someone who has been left to "manage" on her own .. and has done pretty damn poorly at it. Maybe that picture changes if she is better managed by someone more able to do it for her.
Poor SIL. I can only hope that MIL doesn't arrive on the scene there, and create havoc by her nasty comments to SIL's husband. Of all the people I know on the face of the planet, .. they, she and her husband, are far more tolerant and patient with that kinda thing than most would be. Excusing her behavior as *she's old, she says thing she shouldn't*. Both she and her husband of that ilk. MIL should thank her lucky stars that was her fate .. to have a daughter who has the patience of a saint, and her husband also. I don't possess that infinite patience. Thus, in it all, there was a straw that broke the camel's back with it all, .. and that was when I tried to persuade back months and months ago, that we need more help ... it's getting too be too much to manage. And MIL's .. what I would term reckless disregard for how her infirmities impact others and reciting her rote memory "I will be fine, I will manage here", and refusing outside help. I exited. I don't have the patience that SIL has. Not by a long shot.
I need to be talking to SIL .... and I say "I" only because .. we see where it gets to put any of this in DH's lap. Nowhere.
I would like to plan a visit to see my mother who moved away. I would like to be able to put that on our radar as something for a long weekend, upcoming sometime soon. But what of the above plans with regard to MIL.
As thing stand presently with the whole situation .. I guess we'd of not known a thing until they board the plane to depart, wasn't SIL that imparted any of this news. Was MIL. SIL has been told, .. more than once, .. that if they begin to look in that direction forward, we will certainly do whatever we can to help facilitate/assist. Nothing has come from her in the way of any pleas to assist.
Do I just drag out the calendar and clear it with DH as to any plan to go see my mom .. he and myself? And just disregard all the above as to MIL .. assuming nothing has been requested of us, we're free/clear to live our lives. Or do I run it past SIL .. "hey your mom mentioned that there's been a turn of sorts here, her agreeing that she needs to return with you to IL .. and so you guys working towards that end, .. she mentioned you'd been going thru a lot of papers there and running to the shredder with them and there'd be some things that need doing in advance of this plan ... what will you need our help with and when do you anticipate that you might need either of us".
I know that she can't truly answer that right now. Her mom .. as she said, .. working hard to recover from the fall at xmas .. and then .. will have the MOHS thing end of this month. What will be the recovery time from that procedure ... who can say ...???..... SIL can't answer that, no one can.
I just feel like I need to touch base with her on the above .. and run past her what our agenda looks like, at least as a courtesy and reminder that we are available, willing to help (though she's been told that already). But that we would also like to arrange a visit out of state to see my mother in all of it somewhere .. and working around their agenda, .. what works best.
I know ZERO about Reverse Mortgages but have noticed it mentioned on this forum that the homeowner can vacate for a limited amount of time.
Again, I don’t know the rules on Reverse Mortgages. I hope someone comes along to clarify or you/and/or the family are clear on this. Or this doesn’t apply to MILs Reverse Mortgage.