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Margeaux~You are very right about behavior and consequences. When people are less than welcoming when you come in their home, why would you want to go back? My eldest brother's wife was very rude when my parents would stop by and visit when they lived here. She would actually get up and go do bed (early evening visit). After they moved to Montana, sil made their visits so uncomfortable. I have to side with my mother on this one, sil would get mad because my mom would buy the kids treats when they took them to town. My parents only got to see the grandkids once a year. After the second visit to Montana they never went back which is what sil wanted. Of course there were other issues due to mom's PD that played into this as well. Good for you telling your sister the truth even though it fell on deaf ears. Detaching, detaching and more detaching.

I have the same problem with running the heater, sinuses getting too dry, stuffy,etc. Daytime temps are getting back up in the 50's but nighttime temps still below 32 which is cold for us. It's usually in the 40's at night. We aren't having the fog either which makes it colder. Gotta run, getting ready for work. Have a great day and hugs to you!!
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Well I managed to keep a safe distance from my sister's complaints about her dysfunction regarding her daughters and my SIL's daughters. But a couple days ago she did call me, and started to recant the whole thing, and the fact about our brothers attitude towards it, which is he doesn't seem to realize that his daughters, nor his wife did a bad thing by dissing my sister's first grandson on Christmas. My brother has never been emotionally involved in anything, he's' a quiet kind of guy. This is his personality. He's the father of that other niece I just wrote about who was in and out of jail, and he never participated in the discipline about her. My sister seems stubborn about the fact that he doesn't acknowledge nor does he think my SIL, (who's a narcissist) does anything wrong. I told her, that he's probably never going to acknowledge this, because he isn't a participant at all in that manner, either. So when my sister shared with me that my brother had called after Christmas to ask her, what was going on Christmas Day, as he felt quite uncomfortable, he told her that her younger daughter didn't greet he, SIL, and their daughters. The dissing of my great nephew occurred after that. So this time around, I got brave and had to point out to my sister, that possibly by her own daughters bad behavior, the other cousins and SIL did their bad deed. I feel as if I've bitten my tongue long enough about my sister's daughter's poor attitude.
My sister seems to think that daughter's behavior doesn't affect relationships in the bigger picture, and it does. Even when I told my sister this, she somewhat defended, or made a very poor excuse saying, that her daughter is grown up now, and she can't control what her daughter does. Oh boy, just to give you all an idea about how my controller sister thinks. She thinks she can control, instead of having taught her something. I'm glad I finally spoke up to my sister, about the truth of that matter. Behavior does have consequences, and it's playing out!
Detaching again, Margeaux
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Sharynmarie,

Yes, it has been cold in California. Last night I found myself putting on this light jacket inside the house. We turn our heater on, but we're in a small apartment. Too much dries out my sinuses, so I have to monitor my husband about this (he gets colder than I do)
It's important to have the heater on with elders, especially up where you live, as I know it's probably very cold there. It does play on our emotions too, whatever our elders may be suffering. I know I've felt this way, when I've been over at mom's, and my sister is having an issue w/her. Many times my sister w/become impatient and annoyed w/mom. I know it's based on past history since my sister starts to mention things to me, about how hard she once was on us.
I would never put myself in my sister's shoes either, she lives w/her. But my sister also takes just about anything and everything very personally.
Well you're doing the best, and a very good job at separating your feelings from what needs to be done, etc.
I hope the medications start to work for her. You and yours are in my thoughts, Sharynmarie! Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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Emjo,

Peace to you. It must be a difficult time for you having lost your friend, then also hearing news your other friend had surgery. Yes, this is when one reflects, about things. Your in my thoughts Emjo, and glad to hear from you. Much Love & Light!!
Margeaux
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It's funny how a few words can fill a big hole in our heart -- something that Rolls Royces and the crown jewels can't do. I thanked my aunt on her online memorial a few minutes ago. If she got the message somehow, she probably knew what I meant. :)
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JessieBell, Love your comment "The gift of words." I think that is what I miss the most about my Mom... She always healed me and loved me with her "gifts of words." What an amazing way to think about words. I am so happy for you to have received some understanding and healing.
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Austin195,

What an inspiration you are! That's it! This is exactly the best way to approach these difficult people in our lives. It really takes some kind of discipline too. Heck, I had to do this the other day, when my husband and me went to visit this woman friend of his. She's a great lady. But here comes the but, she's very opinionated, and honestly sometimes talks way too much. The other day she made a comment about being afraid in another part of town and rolling up her windows when she's in that area, of course insinuating that people from my culture are bad and could harm her. Let's say, she's rather clumsy at times when she makes remarks like this. I felt myself becoming offended, as she said this. Then I just told myself, "o.k., you're not going to go there." I know she's generalizing and I wasn't going to react not even privately at an emotional level. If I do, then I give my power away. So I decided to become the observer, and honestly, she's really the one w/homework to do about other cultures, her problem. Normally, once we came home I would have mentioned something about this to my husband, then these feelings can stay with us. It felt good for someone else's dumb comment not to control me. Gee, this felt so good. Anyway, loved you post! Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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BTW this coming Monday will be three weeks since my mom has been on an antidepressant and 3 weeks since her dr. said he would report to APS that she can't live alone and needs an evaluation and home safety check. APS still has not come out. Told my sister last week I did not think they were going to come out since the dr.'s report to them is standard procedure. Sis is sick this week with a nasty cold, when she is better I am going to make appt. with a geriatric physician.
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Hollis and Joymoon I didn't mean to forget you, I hope you are both well and come back to share, vent, just let loose!! Hugs to you both!!
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Margeaux~Thank you for asking about me. I hope you are surviving the colder than normal temps we are having here in California. We really are a bunch of wimps when it comes to colder weather, Lol! How are you doing over all?

I have been busy with mom running back and forth making sure she is using the heater, eating, etc. On Sunday when I went over, she did not look good. Then she told me she just got a phone call from someone telling her she has to leave her house and cannot live there anymore. I realized she had been crying. I reassured her that she owns her house, it is secured in the living trust and no one can remove her from her home. I have been off the last 3 days and on Monday I went over in the morning because I was worried about her from the day before. It has been very cold here at night (25-28), she was still in bed because it was so cold. She had the heater on but the thermostat registered 59 degrees at 9:30am. I made her some oatmeal for breakfast and she perked up. Even though she has been so abusive and destructive in our family, it still just breaks my heart to pieces when she is experiencing pain due to the Alzheimer's...not understanding phone calls and then panicking. Yesterday she was back to normal (what normal is for her now) and she was able to get moving in the morning getting herself breakfast. Take care everyone!!

Joan~Take care of yourself and post when you are feeling better...so much going for you to process right now. Hugs!

Envision, Cmag, MyWitsEnd, Crossbearer, and CapNHardass I hope all is going well with you as you continue to care for your loved ones!! Hugs!
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JessieBelle~What a wonderful gift to receive!! I have read many of your posts on other threads, it is obvious that you have a heart full of love. I think making a plaque is a great idea, something that reminds you...It is not your fault and put a picture of your aunt on it as well. If you have to keep it in a drawer so you can pull it out and read it when you need to be reminded then do it so your mother wont get jealous. Hugs to you!!
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I looked back over life last night and thought about a few things. I got online and went to a couple of the sites on children of parents with PD. I didn't get a lot from the sites, because they focused so much on symptoms and definitions, instead of the spiritual aspects of what happens. I realize that self-centeredness and jealousy of a parent can drive a wedge between the children. In maintaining herself as center, a parent can plot one child against another and father against children. So you end up with a totally broken family. It can be very subtle, like talking bad about siblings or showing favoritism. The end result is that everyone is dependent on the parent with the PD for any type of family connection. And that can be like being dependent on a chicken bone for nutrition, because there is nothing there.

Austin, what you wrote is so true. I decided last night that the baiting and belittling were just silly words to be ignored. I do realize that with her personality and the dementia, there is really no way to help my mother beyond her physical needs. But maybe it is time to pull in the rest of the family. My brother and his family went to the funeral with us. My SIL did all the driving and everyone helped with my mother. It was a stressful but wonderful trip. And I found a family of cousins who were mostly very loving people. They had been Facebook friends for a while, so we weren't total strangers. Family does need each other. They provide something that no one else can. When you grow up without the connection, you don't even realize it until one day you see what it is. It is like belonging to a club where you're a totally accepted member. And it is even okay if you put on a little weight or didn't wear your makeup. You're still okay. I like that feeling.
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Jessie I am so glad that your aunt made sure you got that message. It took years and bing on AC for me to realize that the problems with my mother were not my fault-and when I realized that it was very freeing for me I was able to take my power back. The last trip my family took I roomed with my mother
and she was not able to hurt me when she spoke with venon in her words I was able to tell myself she is not hurting me and let her words just pass away-she continued to say whatever she wanted to but the words just flew away instead of being absorbed. When she knew she was dieing she was so focesed on giving her tools away to my brothers but did not say anything about us her children or the grandchildren or what kind of a person she had become.
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I am here - thanks for asking Margeaux. I am still processing the death of my friend, and the surgery of my other friend, As well, I ordered a book on healing of daughters of narcissistic mothers, and have been looking at it, and finding things I need to do - so it is a time of reflection I guess.

((((((((Jessie)))))) what an enormous gift. Absolutely, it is not you. I have a story in the same vein, I will share later - need to get to bed.

Hi to everyone - I have been reading and have some thoughts to share and will get them down here soon.

.♥, hugs and prayers to all - Joan
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Margeaux, what you wrote is so true. An abuser can't accept responsibility for their behavior, so is full of blame. If the child hadn't done this or that..., if they would only be different..., etc., then they wouldn't have to hurt them. If others were like me, they realized even as children that there was something rotten, but they were powerless to do anything about it. Other people seemed oblivious, perhaps because it didn't affect them or it was easier to look away. It feels so much better to know that someone did notice, that it wasn't us. I am glad that your brothers gave you and your sister some peace with what you had been through with your aunt.
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Sharynmarie and Emjo,

Where are you two? I notice you haven't posted in a few days here, I miss both of you. Well, hope things are all right. Much Love, Margeaux
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JessieBelle,

This was a very special gift your aunt left you. How touching, and you see the truth is what is there.
We who have this kind of dysfunction can become very accustomed to the dysfunction and probably start to doubt ourselves. I know I have done this, while dealing with difficult relatives. Then I'm aware, that many times other family members are reluctant to realize or acknowledge Aunt Tilly's or Uncle Billy's manipulations, or bad tempers.
Something similar happened to us in our family almost exactly a year ago, when mom's narcissistic sister died. She made Bette Davis in "Baby Jane," look like an amatuer. But at her funeral, not my sister (who was involved more in her care), and got lot's of abuse of course, nor I got up at her wake to say anything about her. I would have been afraid of what might come out of my mouth.I was dreading that evening, because it was as if I was holding my breath, wondering what our brothers would say. They, who weren't at the other end of her abuse as much as my sister and me. But, that evening each of my brothers,
said something about her life, they also emphasized and acknowledged how outspoken, and difficult she was. I was surprised when they each gave a short but strong eulogy about our aunt. See, so the truth bears out!
I'm really happy that your aunt told your cousin to relay this message, how sweet of her. You should have this plaque made, it's a great quote. Much Love & there's Light! Margeaux
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Something good happened tonight and I just have to tell someone. I got the nicest gift from my aunt who died last week. It was only a gift of words, but it meant so much to me. I was talking to my cousin (her daughter) tonight. She told me her mother said to tell me if we talked to let me know that my mother had always been difficult even as a child. She said that she was always hard to get along with.

That meant the world to me. I told my cousin that I always wondered how much was my mother and how much was me. My cousin said, "No, it's not you."

The last few weeks have been very bad. It seems like nothing I've done is right. If I help her do something, then I'm trying to control things. If I don't help, she screams at me how I just don't care. I haven't even been able to sit and watch a TV show or have lunch without her starting something. Sometimes it is out of the clear blue, like she isn't surprised that my husband broke it off with me because of the way that I talked to him. She had heard the way that I talked to him, so she didn't blame him. I had no idea of what she was even talking about. Was there something? Was I really that faulty?

My cousin told me of the times my mother had snatched us up by the hair when we were little. I don't remember this. I do remember many other things. She has always lived a life of rage full of blame aimed at others. I guess you could say now I am the sole keeper of the blame, since I am the only one around.

I don't believe that all of this is happening without reason. It made me cry that my aunt reached back from her death to leave this gift message for me. It is like it washed a lot of the recent pain from my life. Maybe I should make a little plaque for myself that says, "It's not you" to remind me anytime I feel bad about the things going on. I don't plan on leaving, because I think there are things that still need to be done. I just have to figure out what those things are.

Pardon the book. It has been a hard week with doctors and out-of-town funerals. I just had to tell someone who would know how good the message from my aunt felt.
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Joymoon,

If your daughter is as you've said drinking on the weekends, and taking advantage of her other grandmother, it sounds as if on an emotionally health scale, she isn't healthy.
In our family, my brother had a daughter very young-18 yrs. old. In a nutshell he & a neighbor (first girlfriend) became in pregnancy mode. They were married for a very short while, (our mom did the guilt on him), of course it didn't last.
The daughter from this union, then was coming between my mom's home, and her own mom's home, the custody arrangement. My brother, unfortunately didn't really participate at all w/the care/discipline of this girl, of course since our mother a controller took over, (was her first grandkid). All mom did was spoil her rotten. This girl started to get in trouble also, w/the drugs, etc. She went to jail, before she was 18. Then apparently she ended up there a few more times, even as recently as 4 yrs., ago. She's caused a lot of trouble in our family for sure. Now she's almost 40 yrs. old. But she's done so much damage in previous years, especially towards my sister and myself, so much so that we don't want anything to do w/her. It also has to do w/the fact, that she's made attempts to get at our mother, (who was too generous w/money) w/her. Mom has ALZ now.
This girl has never, ever come to us w/any apologies. She has this primadona and entitlement attitude. Anyway, last year she tried to come while mom's sister was just about to die, and get in good w/her at the last minute, surely to secure some kind of inheritance from this relative, who she never came to see as she aged, or became sick. On that visit, my sister basically told her she wasn't welcome to come there to mother's home anymore.
I'm aware as an aunt w/this kind of history how difficult this is towards family members. So I can't even imagine how this must be for you being their mother.
But, I really believe, if these daughters, sons, nieces do not come with a remorseful attitude, and one can see some demonstrated efforts on their parts to straighten out their own lives, there's little if any chance of someone like yourself to have a genuine and healthy relationship w/your daughter.

I have witnessed some of this going on in my own extended family also of grown children, who are acting out, never wanting to take responsibility for this, and they bring up old history, past hurts to their parents, etc. I know these young adults do this to inflict guilt, and really not accept their own responsibility about the poor choices they've made for themselves also. You might want to set very firm boundaries with your daughter. My very best to you. Much Love & Light!
Margeaux
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Joymoon,

If your daughter is as you've said drinking on the weekends, and taking advantage of her other grandmother, it sounds as if on an emotionally health scale, she isn't healthy.
In our family, my brother had a daughter very young-18 yrs. old. In a nutshell he & a neighbor (first girlfriend) became in pregnancy mode. They were married for a very short while, (our mom did the guilt on him), of course it didn't last.
The daughter from this union, then was coming between my mom's home, and her own mom's home, the custody arrangement. My brother, unfortunately didn't really participate at all w/the care/discipline of this girl, of course since our mother a controller took over, (was her first grandkid). All mom did was spoil her rotten. This girl started to get in trouble also, w/the drugs, etc. She went to jail, before she was 18. Then apparently she ended up there a few more times, even as recently as 4 yrs., ago. She's caused a lot of trouble in our family for sure. Now she's almost 40 yrs. old. But she's done so much damage in previous years, especially towards my sister and myself, so much so that we don't want anything to do w/her. It also has to do w/the fact, that she's made attempts to get at our mother, (who was too generous w/money) w/her. Mom has ALZ now.
This girl has never, ever come to us w/any apologies. She has this primadona and entitlement attitude. Anyway, last year she tried to come while mom's sister was just about to die, and get in good w/her at the last minute, surely to secure some kind of inheritance from this relative, who she never came to see as she aged, or became sick. On that visit, my sister basically told her she wasn't welcome to come there to mother's home anymore.
I'm aware as an aunt w/this kind of history how difficult this is towards family members. So I can't even imagine how this must be for you being their mother.
But, I really believe, if these daughters, sons, nieces do not come with a remorseful attitude, and one can see some demonstrated efforts on their parts to straighten out their own lives, there's little if any chance of someone like yourself to have a genuine and healthy relationship w/your daughter.

I have witnessed some of this going on in my own extended family also of grown children, who are acting out, never wanting to take responsibility for this, and they bring up old history, past hurts to their parents, etc. I know these young adults do this to inflict guilt, and really not accept their own responsibility about the poor choices they've made for themselves also. You might want to set very firm boundaries with your daughter. My very best to you. Much Love & Light!
Margeaux
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MyWitsEnd, thanks for answering my questions You MIL sounds like someone with an undiagnosed personality disorder like narcissism or borderline. I'm nor surprised to hear that her husband was passive. Your MIL in some ways is like mine and her late husband was an intelligent, nurturing, but passive-dependent person who never felt like he could stand up for his daughters when their mother would abuse them.

Before my mother landed in the nursing home, she liked to fire doctors when she did not like what she heard. It was so bad, that even the staff in the hospital had heard about it.

I agree that it does not sound like your MIL would sign a Durable POA. However, someone is going to need to get it before she is diagnosed incompetent and even then she might not which would force your husband or someone to file for guardianship.

I am very sorry to hear that she is so cold to children and a miser. My MIL is a miser as well, but not that bad. What gets me is she has tons of money but has done nothing for either of her daughters who are both on disability (SIL is an ovarian cancer survivor since 2001 and my wife has bipolar disorder), and she has helped extremely little toward the college education of her two grandchildren which are the only grandchildren she has. To give you an idea of how much money she has, she has the maximum insurable amount of money in 14 or so banks plus the money she has hidden at home. My dad has given a bit more toward their education, but he has even more money and they are his only grandchildren as well, plus I am his only child on disability as well with bipolar disorder also.
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Cmagnum- yes, she has always been this way. Openly does not like children. Has never attended a birthday party, graduation, or sent any cards or gifts. None of my children remember a single hug. That pales in comparison to what she has done to other grandchildren- too much to go into here. She is a cold, cruel woman. Her basic philosophy has always been to do whatever pleases her. If, say comfortinng a grandchild who had just lost their parents was called for, and it didn't interest her, she wouldn't do it (happened). So, what led her to us? My husband is only surviving sibling. FIL passed away in 12. He was a very passive person. They lived several states away. After he passed, she started saying how lonely she was and that she wasn't eating. My husband told her it would be easier if she moved near us. One day she called and announced she was living with us. It was a surprise as that had not been discussed. We should have definately said no. Does she have dementia? I would say mild, but she refuses to see a doctor. She has a long history of not trusting doctors and firing them if she doesn't like what she hears. My husband has medical POA, but not POA. I highly doubt she would sign it. She flat out refuses assisted living. She says she doesn't need it. Finances- not an issue at all. Other than she is a miser.
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Crossbarer: my stepfather was a perv and when he was in hospice I did not lift a finger to care for him and said hardly anything to him. He lingered for a few days, moaning and groaning and I heard the death rattle and all that. And I just kept thinking, die already! He was a perv to the end, grabbed a family friend's butt while he was in his hospice bed in his living room. And a physical abuser still, grabbed my mother's hands real hard (she has arthritis real bad), which really hurt her. At the funeral, we were asked to say nice things about him, and none of his kids did. So, I don't think it's bad the way you feel. If you're anything like me, once he does pass, you will feel like a great burden has been lifted.
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hi magnum. no i dont think im mean at all. in fact i see many people on here who are very frustrated. im really not because i dont scamper for mothers every whim. its too easy for an elder to sit on their ass and try to dictate to carers what they should be doing with their energies. i may have come on a little strong but im no different than anyone else here who has been forced to establish boundaries. im not going to jump and run every time some ocd person decides that a weed needs pulled..
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Welcome capnhardass. It sounds like you are being mean to someone with dementia, obsessive disorder, who is also depressed. Have you talked with her doctor about the best ways to help her?
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MyWittsEnd, why did your husband ever let his mother into your house given she does not like any of her grandchildren? I can understand your being fed up with her attitude. I have a few questions to help me understand your situation better.

Has she always been the way she is now?

What health problems does she have that keeps her from living by herself?

Does she have any resources to help her pay for assisted living?

Does her son have durable and medical POA for her?

Has she been evaluated for dementia?
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I am at my breaking point. MIL does not like our teen son. She hasn't liked any of her grandchildren, so this is not out of character. He is a great kid- very respectful, good student in accelerated classes, working on his Eagle in Boy Scouts. He never gives us any trouble. She has been saying he is "stealing" food for the last few weeks. It has been things he wouldn't even eat, so my husband has been getting in arguments with her. Yesterday, she noticed he had eaten a roll. The rolls were on the counter where we keep all our bread. She got very mad. She made the mistake of saying this to me. I asked her if she did not want him eating those particular rolls. She said she did not. I told her I would talk with him. She said, "good, maybe he will listen to you." I told her to be fair, it is very hard for him to know what he can and cannot eat. Our son is 5'10" and 130lbs. He is growing like a weed. Teenage boys eat, it's just what they do. Anyway, she said, "he needs to ask". I told her this is his home, and in his own home he does not need to ask if can eat something. That ended the discussion. Later, he and I had to drop something off for a family we are helping. We stopped by the store, and I got another pack of the rolls so we could replace the 2 he had eaten. When she saw this, she got mad, again. She said that now we have too many, and they will go bad. Then she made some crack, "I bet your son put you up to that one". I left the room. If this were anyone else, I would tell them to pack their things and find a hotel. You cannot come in to our home and be mean and negative towards our son. It is extremely rude and disrespectful. As it is, I told my husband the open ended stay just got a deadline. He has until March 1 to find somewhere else for her. Maybe I overreacted, I don't know. I am just fed up with her attitude.
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im brand new here and i couldnt have randomly picked a better topic..i am destressing significantly by reading these insiteful "rants " . im caregiving for dementiamom, 80 yrs old , and she has the ""obssessive disorder. i do not do well with obssessive. im the type who will make a decision and never revisit that decision again. most are good decisions but even if they werent it was no less decided ..im doing a damn good job in dealing with mothers emotional needs and she trusts me but the stress is still there. sometimes a muscle in the back of my neck will start jackhammering..my mom is a nar and uses extreme despondancy to sympathy hor everyone around her. except me..my resolve and belligerance are what calms and grounds her. she has dementia so if being unyielding in my care plan for her doesnt snap her out of her despondant phase i just might break out and sing bout half of a vulgar david allen coe song. instant distraction and generally gets her smiling i might add , sometimes its good medicine to piss a seriously depressed person off. this is approved strategy in some medical circles. pissed off is pretty much the opposite of despondancy and agony..
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Joymoon – I’m sorry for what you have gone through. I read your history in your profile before answering you if you were wrong. Drinking and drugs are not good. Plus she blames you for the mess. I wonder if as an adult, if she can see YOUR side of the story? Why does she now wants to renew her communications with you? What is it that she wants from you? What is it that you want from her? A mother/daughter relationship? If yes, it will be hard work for BOTH of you. Just watch your heart when renewing your relationship with your daughter. You’ve had so many disappointments and betrayals from everyone in your life. You’ve taken so much hurt within you. If you have decided to get to know her, I would say proceed with caution.

Envision – you have patience. I would have blown up somewhere and …then get everyone all pissed off at me. I like Margeaux’s advice. You don’t need to be a perfectionist (perfect mother, perfect wife, perfect daughter.) As for boundaries, try following this link…it has boundaries and walking on eggshells, etc…

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/self-help-books-153361.htm

Cmag, Sharyn, Margeaux and Yogi - Hi!!! =)
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Crossbarer – I’ve been molested as a child. I think all of us girls (total of 5) were. Myself and 2 younger sisters have NO memories of it. I won’t go into details the struggles I’ve had to go thru to just be able to hold hands (even with a child), hugs, etc… I will say that when father had a stroke and became bedridden on 2011, I had a very difficult time cleaning him. It was really difficult. I still blank my mind when I tend him. And I don’t think it’s wrong to wonder when will it end. I wonder about that for soooo long now. Sigh… All I know is that I refuse to give up my full time job to stay home and take care of both parents. My job is my sanity. If I ever have the need to pack and leave, I will have a job to help me do this. As for Death bed promises…when you are ready to break this promise, you WILL. So, before that can happen, you will need to learn to like YOU and accept what you are NOW. Work on improving your image of yourself. Like Yogi said – start by seeing yourself as a Survivor. That’s how I view myself. I survived childhood…I still view myself as damaged goods but…I survived it. Yogi survived it. Others on this thread have survived it. And you survived it. You can come on here and ask questions or vent and someone will do their best to help you.
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