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I hesitated to pose this question, but after clicking through the forum I feel there must be a few caregivers out there going through similar circumstances. My 85 yo mother has been an unhappy person as long as I can remember. She's never done any of the work necessary to discover the value of self worth and self love, and has blamed other people for her unhappiness her whole life. As a martyr personality, she has chosen to be miserable in her emotions of grief, disappointment, and loneliness.


Over the years me and my brother and sister have consistently suggested counseling/therapy, but she has always claimed no one can help her, that "God is punishing her" in some way for her horrible life. She has consistently chosen blame, shame, manipulation, passive aggressiveness, and martyrdom. Besides severe depression, we actually suspected bipolar or some other condition. She would simply forget anything she said or did that was emotionally charged. As children we were emotionally and sometimes physically abused and gaslighted. I've actually healed all that...am not emotionally attached to my mother, and have been willing to intensively help my mom the last year since she was diagnosed with Alzheimers and vascular dementia. My sister helps as well. We simply don't want to see an old lady suffering.


Aside from her mental/emotional state, she has been fairly strong and healthy. As sometimes happens with dementia, she doesn't eat well or get the exercise she used to, and I expect her to decline physically as a result. Being her caregiver is challenging and can be highly frustrating if I let it... she lives alone still but we don't let her drive. (The battery died and she can't do anything about it.) Over the last several years she has become a recluse, with social anxiety and a fear of strangers. She doesn't want to go anywhere, yet complains constantly that she is stuck in her house. Not driving has been absolutely devastating for her, and it doesn't matter that we've been more than accommodating by offering to provide her rides. She's afraid to spend any money. Basically, she's mired in poverty consciousness, fear, and intense sadness that isolation brings. On top of that, we have the dementia which has skyrocketed her anxiety and she's often psychotic and paranoid. Luckily I was able to get her to a geriatric psychiatrist who could prescribe meds to take the edge off of that, so the fear factor isn't so intense. Because she's physically able to get around ok, she thinks she is fine and can take care of herself, and doesn't need any help. She can still take care of basic stuff, but I suspect bowel incontinence from time to time. Her house is a mess and she refuses help cleaning. She refuses any strangers in her house, making it impossible for us to hire outside help to check on her and give her meds or a warm meal. (Only microwave oven is operable.)


She has needed to be moved to AL for several months now, but we are somewhat concerned because she doesn't have much more than a few years resources to pay for that. My sister and I considered for a while that she might do better in AL, but, and now leading to my question. I'm convinced she will not engage. It will be a nightmare to move her. But she already hates us. Still... I have to consider..are we prolonging her misery by over-caring for her? Aside from an occasional good day maybe once every couple months, she's miserable and talks about just wanting to die and killing herself. She's outlived any friends and relatives besides us, and she wants to die. She tells us everyday. Even when she was in her right mind she refused to seek help or improve her outlook (never been one for change or proactive behaviors.)We brought in a therapist who works with dementia patients and even she couldn't help. She actually had never seen someone so miserable and abusive and unwilling to seek any joy at all. Her spirit is broken, her will is gone, and yet her body hangs on.
Anyone have any thoughts?

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gemmab123: I am sorry that she suffers from depression and also the disease of the brain. Prayers sent to you.
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Having read through all the responses, I will be eagerly awaiting the "Mom's Move" story!

Ours was interesting itself, given that mom's brain lied to her that she was fine, independent, etc and even though at one time AL was in HER plans, at the time we needed to consider moving her you would think it was a hospital for leprosy! Our problem was EC atty said we can't force her to move, even with POA already in place and suggested guardianship. Facility we chose said no committals. Ugh! WTH do we do??? Get creative...
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thank you. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. Actually feel very good about the approach at this MC has a lot of high functioning folks and while it is locked to outside, there is no massive gate surrounding it and there is a huge outdoor area in courtyard space which mom would potentially enjoy. It doesn't feel like any MC I've visited.
Staff is well informed and knowledgable ready to handle difficult cases. This is the total opposite of moving my dad who was agreeable to everything :)
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Update: We found a MC for mom, moving her in the next few weeks. Hopeful she will transition to find some peace and happiness. If not, at least she is getting her safety and care needs met.
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cherokeegrrl54 Jan 2020
Glad to hear this news!! For you, sister and your mom. It wont be easy, but is what is needed. Blessings to you in this journey.
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Gemma, I’m not sure I saw this above: if you call an ambulance and she goes to the hospital, make sure they actually admit her - not keep her under observation for days (this is for Medicare purposes). She needs to stay in the hospital for 3 days for Medicare to cover the initial rehab costs. Seek out the hospital’s Social Worker. Tell them that your Mother absolutely cannot be discharged home alone, that it is an unsafe environment. And, no, she cannot move in with any of you, either. The hospital will try to push back, but stand your ground. The hospital will then be responsible for finding a bed for her at a facility that accepts Medicare & Medicaid. Medicare will pay for a few weeks of rehab, while the nursing home helps you get her Medicaid application submitted. I wish you an easy transition and plenty of patience to get her settled in.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
We would need a reason to call an ambulance and have her admitted to a hospital. Currently there isn't one. She doesn't need a nursing home. And through my experience with my dad, I know I would have to find a bed anyway. And she wouldn't be eligible for Medicaid. But thanks for the wishes for easy transition. She'll be moving soon.
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Hi my caregiving sister. I thought you explained things so very well. I felt a little taken back as well by the Initial comments Of a few regarding this.
Judgment should be left to God, what this wall is for..... is for Support. I wish they hadn’t said things the way they did, it wasn’t necessary, nor was it true. But then again we are all tired... physically mentally and emotionally as well. Grace is needed all the way around.

SO I just wanted to let you know, that I got everything you have shared except for the part, mom doesn’t actually say she will “kill her self”. She doesn’t want to die but has just kind of given up on living. She’s only 78.
Feels tough even saying / writing those words about dying ... can’t imagine what you feel having to hear them. But every other word you spoke could have come right out of my mouth.

The advice about allowing public safety or the system step in seems like good advice, and the only card we have left to play.
The only real answer to me is prayer... that is if you subscribe to faith. If she had been the way since you were a child, then there are probably some deeply rooted and dark issues still churning inside of her and because of her dementia, Devine intervention may be the only way to even curb the wrath she sends out.
My siblings and I have been so confused because so much of her negativity, indecisiveness, bitterness and judgement is what we have grown up with. Sometimes we still do a double take because it really feels like it always has.
But every once in a while my heart over flows while I share a sweet memory with her, and when she sees the tears in my eyes, it has actually softened her just a bit...THEN in a moment of compassion her thinking and speech actually becomes less harsh and for a few minutes we are connecting. ❤️ That’s one way my prayers are being answered I think. Cover them
with prayers, and pray for your own wisdom and strength as well.

Take your vitamins, and practice self care...
i would quit everything and go and dedicate my time to making the rest of her life the best it could be, and really enjoy maybe 80% of it ;)
but I’m really concerned of loosing my life while doing it, because I’m recently divorced and nearing retirement age myself in 5 years. Moms health is pretty good, and from what I understand this battle of the mind can actually last decades. So there is a little fear inside thinking I will wake up one day and she will be in eternity and I will be in my senior years, alone, with no retirement in place and my best years behind me.
Boy! I will probably get some really nice comments for that selfish remark.
But it’s okay, we are all on different journeys, and this really needs to be a No Judgement Zone treating others the way we want to be treated ❤️
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Wow and wow! Thank you, gemmab123, for asking this question. Thank you, everyone, for your great responses. I am exactly right where gemmab123 is regarding narcissistic mom, placement, etc. Gemma, please let us know how the placement/transition go. I know it is time for me to "pull the trigger" for placement for my mom. Just really cannot picture what that is going to look like. Good luck!
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thank you. I feel for anyone in a situations even remotely like this. What I am finding.. is that we've waited too long. Should've done it at least 6 months ago...but, hindsight is 2020 as they say. Thought we were moving her out of state and now that's not the case. I would have been smart to have a plan B all along. Waiting just puts off the inevitable and doesn't make it any easier.
I will definitely follow up over next several weeks.
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I have lived through this with my grandmother to the end. I sympathize with you so much and I have to say ours had a bad ending. First make sure that she cannot make any changes to power of attorney & take all financial ability away from her. If not, she can make changes & give anyone that ability, including the nice criminal who visits her! That can also be a family member, sad to say who ended her life prematurely with inadequate care so they would get more money. After that is resolved to your family's liking, I agree with another statement. Sounds like you're all doing too much for her, but like my grandmother sounds so much like her & the dementia is only going to make things worse all the way around. The caregivers need to think what some may think is selfish, but it is not. Think of yourself and your spouse/children and not let this cause other issues because I know it is very hard and very painful even if you have resolved past pain. Unfortunately in our case as the dementia continued, it gets worse and more difficult. It seems with dementia that they either accept it and are nice and peaceful, but most I think panic and turn very mean. I've had friends whose mother was told not to visit her husband anymore because it too much work to settle him down in AL. Foul mouthed, loud, throwing things. We had to wait until she had an accident and was in the hospital & took the dr aside to explain the living conditions/concerns & told him we all work & cannot give 24 hr care, even if she moved in with us & she would not allow anyone to come in the house to help her. Some drs think they should move elderly family members in with the younger generation. When the dr gets on board, they can help with getting them into AL. Our case the regular dr talked to them telling them they need to go. Grandpa was ready to go. Grandma was the hold out & didnt want to lose control of anything. We had to wait until the dr at the hospital told her he was not going to release her to stay at home, they had to go to AL. We got them into AL. She got angry, made all the changes she could to everything, caused big disaster and I saw very little of her after that point. We made sure to keep an eye on my grandfather to the end, which was not easy to do since really no one was to tell us anything after her crazy decisions & demands. Then when he passed we just had to accept that she was with the ones she wanted to take care of her, even though they did her in. She lived with being sick or complaining her whole life. Unfortunately it is a very difficult time for you and everyone caring for her. I got so upset from the issues, I started having issues including my hair falling out, exhausted, stressed out! They were a very religious couple, but she could not use her faith but lived in fear her whole life. We found we could only offer some words of encouragement to her, but it always fell on deaf ears. Since she had been like that all her life I wonder if she even knew what she was saying anymore. But I had the comfort knowing I tried & offered encouragement when I could. But I had to give up on beating my head against a steel wall & offer faith & encouragement when possible and let it go. I'd have to tell myself let go & let God.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
I'm sorry that was such a trial for you. I agree we just have to do our best and move forward. I know how it feels to want to be encouraging and get shot down for it. It is what it is!
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This is such a sad story because of the fact that the lady had been unhappy for most of her life and now has a broken brain. IMHO, she COULD be helped by Aricept, but please OP - she needs to be seen by a neurologist. I am NOT a medical professional.

And may I add that I hope you continue on here as you have a LOT to offer!
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thanks.
Mom had a thorough neurology workup over a year ago hence the diagnosis. She is past the point of using the memory drugs. If she didn't have the other complications, I would maybe consider them, especially since she's moving into AL, but everything is overshadowed by her depression/anxiety.
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Your poor, dear mother needs Jesus Christ! She needs to give her precious, eternal soul to her Maker...like, Now!
It doesn't matter how miserable she has been. It doesn't matter if she's been abusive, uncaring or hard...none of this matters. Jesus will accept any and all who come humbly and willingly to Him to be saved, who want to go to Heaven when they die. We all default to Hell, if no decision has been made. Please give to her this amazing option...with all our sins and faults, we will be accepted into the family if God simply by asking Christ to forgive our sins and save our souls from Hell, which every one of us so richly deserves.
Check out a very nice Christian on YouTube...he has a sweet, gentle ministry to all who want love, comfort and the happy hope of Heaven! Mark Murchison. Youtube and/or Godtube... he's found on both.
Please do this for the sake of your mother's eternal soul! And consider the future of your own soul...are ye saved? If not, get saved! Be ready! It's Heaven or Hell. Our choice! Look up Mark Murchison. He talks, and plays guitar and has a sweet, warm, beautiful singing voice! His talking voice is warm and sweet too, like warm maple syrup! Love you and your dear mother! Shalom! 💗🕊💗
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rovana Jan 2020
Thank you for your post.  Always have hope and trust in God and keep in mind that your journey is meant to end in eternal life, not here. As long as you are alive, it is never too late.  It would be wonderful if OP's mother were to open her heart. She is punishing herself, God is not doing this.
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Your mother is so fortunate to have been able to remain in her own home for so long despite her dementia and depression. That has obviously been because of the support both you and your siblings have been giving. It is just so unfair that you cannot be recognised by her for that fact. But it is what it is.

You are afraid your mother will not engage? Her problem, not yours. She seems determined to be depressed and unhappy, she can do that just as well in assisted living as she can in her own home. Her physical safety has to over ride her determination to be unhappy, and in so doing, to make those around her trying to help unhappy too.

If you can overcome the financial issues of your mother going into permanent care, that is the most obvious way to look out for her needs from here on in. She does not sound as if she is ready for a memory care unit....yet....but the time will eventually arrive given her dementia.

Meanwhile, the longer you and your siblings take to get her into assisted living the more your mother will resist. Been there, done that, as have so many in this forum. And, by the way, there is no magic or perfect way to make a smooth transition, so don't waste time searching for one. If and when the decision is made to move your mother into a professional care situation, engage those professionals in the process. Be ready to change your plans at a moment's notice, for your mother to agree and then dig her heels in. There could be tantrums and tears, but once the decision is made and the arrangements are in place it is not a good idea to back off. It will only be harder the next time, and the time after that.

But first things first. If neither you nor your siblings has POA you will have to seek legal advice. It does not sound as if your mother would co-operate in providing that now, she may well be considered unable to make that decision for herself.
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disgustedtoo Jan 2020
Brother has POA
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Caregiving vs neglecting. A very fine line. You do not want to be accused of neglecting your mother. It was a fear of mine when caring for my father - it's also why we had a living will and I had it notarized.

And it isn't your mother who will do the accusing. The courts are not lenient with family neglecting seniors. Perhaps you need to speak with an Elder Attorney.
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disgustedtoo Jan 2020
I believe any question of backing off care-giving was rhetorical, esp when reading OP's responses to other comments. She isn't suggesting closing the door and walking away...
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I can only say you are fighting the good fight and *anything* you do will be never enough, as much as you've done already. Take comfort in the support and practical advice here on AgingCare, where we've all been through this in one way or the other. There are nice people out there who are willing to help you move your mom out, or if she won't budge, to remind you you've done your best. Take care -
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thanks so much.
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I agree with those who said to go to an Elder Care Lawyer. They would be able to steer you in the right direction.
If you have POA, that would also help, especially since it sounds like she is not able to make decisions that would ensure her safety. With all that you've described, I can't see any doctor that wouldn't be able to say that she's unable to take care of herself properly.
AL sounds like it is the place she needs to be. Whether or not she "engages" isn't the issue, safety and care are. There she will at least be cared for and that will take some of the worry off of your and your sister's plates.
I've often thought about how I would get my mother, who would rather die than leave her house, into AL when the time comes. While I love my mother very much, what you describe with yours sounds familiar. My mother was and moreso now is a great manipulator - guilt, threats, unhappiness, dementia, depression etc. I, too, have detached myself emotionally for my own health's sake, but I still want her to be taken care of the best way possible. Like I told my husband, one way or another, she will go when the time comes. It can be the easy way or the hard way, but it will happen. It will be for her own good, even though she may not understand or appreciate it. We know why we do what we do.
I hope you are able to find peace in your situation - you're not alone. Good Luck.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thanks. I'm sure the story of 'how we got her there' will be helpful content to add to this post. Hopefully I will be adding it within the next several weeks!
Luckily she assigned POA and planned ahead for this situation. I know not everyone is in that place and for that we are thankful. best wishes
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Please stop stressing yourself. Yes this is common. While Mom has passed - she was 98,had dementia, and was not happy. I did all I could for her, but I always felt I never did enough.

Yes, she constantly wished to die. She would ask why she was still there? I finally remembered she had been active in her church. So - I reminded her that it was up to her and God. If she was ready to go she should send up prayers to say so.

She had been very seriously several years before and nearly passed then. She told me then of the bright light and her decision to come back here.

Don't ever believe it up to you to help her. This decision is all hers and you need to tell her that - as lovingly and nicely as you can. Tell her she is loved, but you understand she would like to move on. That is the kindest, move loving response you can give her. And in the long run the best answer for your piece of mind also.

As for her AL circumstances: I worried about the same things you are expressing. But I knew I could not have Mother move in with me. That would have probably killed both of us. So AL it was. I was surprised, but the AL facility got her engaged with activities (which she always told me was not happening). And don't worry too much about the costs. If she owns her home, that will be able to be sold and monies used for her care. Living in AL she will always have others around and that is so important. It is something we always forget when trying to care for our parents - And where they like it/ acknowledge it / or not interaction with other people in the same circumstances if important for our (our parents and our own) mental health.

Good luck - prayers, hugs and blessings to you
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thank you. Yes, AL is the best option! She may not consciously choose to adjust but perhaps her spirit will pick up where her mind is leaving and will find some peace.
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I think you and your siblings have done all you can. As children, we do have a responsibility to ensure our parents are cared for.
even though she does not have enough money, she would still be taken care of as there are facilities.
Please check in with a social worker or an elder lawyer.
If your mom is unable to care for herself, the situation in her house could eventually be dangerous.
it’s not easy and getting yourself informed about your options will hopefully make your path clearer.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thanks. Getting myself informed has been my MO for the past couple of years, first with dad, now with mom. She will get her needs met in AL. Whether or not she finds some peace is out of my hands!
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This is only my Opinion: Because of her abusive nature and all she has put *you* through, you don’t owe her anything. I seriously suggest, for your own sanity, that you walk away from this whole problem. Change your phone number so your siblings can’t call. If you are able to, move out of town. This is NOT your problem. If your sister and brother get upset about you walking away, fine, let THEM take care of her.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
I can totally appreciate someone needing to take that approach!
Thankfully, I have long healed my birth family's effects on me, and strive to respond to everything in my life from a place of unconditional love instead of pain. Walking away without a trace is something my spirit wouldn't allow, and honestly I've learned even more about myself and my strength through these events. For that I'm thankful.
This too will pass and mom will get her needs met in AL.
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The key sentence that stood out in your post was that she always blamed other people for unhappiness her whole life. So this is not just a recent behavioral issue with her. I have seen people that "seemed" to enjoy the attention they get by being a sad sack and looking sad and all hang dog. I actually had two relatives who seemed to "enjoy" expressing worry all of the time when nothing was going on. It sounds like this is just who your mother is. I don't know your age but I'll say this. You need to get her in a facility if she can't, at this stage now with cognitive issues, take care of herself. You are entitled to some normalcy in your own life before you begin having "senior issues" yourself. I know what I'm talking about and so do many others on this forum. It is hard for you to enjoy your own life if you are taking the bait of your attention seeking mother. If she had not been this way all of her life as you said, I would have much more sympathy for her but it sounds like pretty much the norm for her. I figure you will have her in a facility within a year. Nobody can take a whole lot of this and stay healthy. If you decide to get her into a facility, she would be self-pay until she spends her money down to required amount allowed to have by Medicaid. Seek the advice of an Elder Law Attorney and make a list of questions. Go for a one hour consult. Best thing I ever did for myself. I don't even understand people who say their parent doesn't qualify for nursing home. Yes they do if their mental or physical disability qualifies them. The money part works itself out by going by the rules of Medicaid. Good Luck To You.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thanks. A year?! LOL! More like a month! That is our plan, self pay for a while and see how she does.
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So sorry that your mom persists in depression with other psychological issues. Also, so sorry you have had to deal with the problems her personality has created for your family for your entire life. So glad, you have gotten the help you needed to deal with her personality and mental health problems.

Since she is physically strong but mentally unstable I usually default to my usual standards. I ask myself these questions:

Is this situation healthy?
Is this situation safe?
Kind of a combination of the two. Is this situation clean?
If you read about this situation in the paper, would you wish that the authorities were involved?

If I answer no to the first 3 and yes to the last one. I have my answer. I need to get involved to fix the situation so it is healthy safe, and clean. As you know so well, you can't make anybody happy. If mom is unwilling to let you help her maintain those standards. It seems time to send her to a facility to guarantee her safety and health... if need be against her will. You are not prolonging her suffering; you are providing a safe, clean, healthy quality of life while she is alive.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Great questions! My question in OP was really rhetorical...of course we wouldn't consciously leave mom in her house to die. But healthy, clean, and safe are what we are going for with AL.
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For your sanity, move her to AL. If misery doesn't love company, she has her room
for escape. Why go down with the ship? She would be safe; you/sister can visit.
It's a win-win for everyone.
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Gemma,

I wish I could find a crystal ball for you and for me and for all of us, so we could see into the future and know what our choices of care for our parents leads to. It is so painful to see them experiencing such suffering, even if we may have had very challenging experiences as their children our whole lives. Your empathy and outlook despite such challenges is a sign of incredible maturity and wisdom, which you are lucky to have and surely worked hard to gain.

I can share my experience, but the truth is, every experience will be different...even if situations seem very similar. My mother-in-law was a very critical and unyielding parent. She had a favorite (youngest daughter,) and a scapegoat (oldest daughter,) and a mediator (her son, my husband). She fractured a family with her bottomless pit of emotional need and intense anxiety. As she aged, she became (more of) a hoarder. Looking back, the dementia probably started much earlier than we recognized. We just saw it as part of her general mental unwellness.

She was at home, then her husband had a stroke and needed nursing home level care. Then we got to see how much help she really required day-to-day. We were able to provide it through various means for a while. Then she fell and broke her hip, and that was the beginning of the end of her ability to live at home. She was already qualified for Medicaid long-term home care, so it wasn’t a big deal to make the transition financially.

After the hip fracture, her cognition was much worse for a very long time. Still, she seemed to relish the attention she was able to get at the nursing home. She loved some caregivers and loathed others, just like her children. Then, her favorite person, a social worker, left her job and that started the several times a day phone calls crying about how much she wanted out and wanted to go home. The staff was getting burned out with her constant need for interaction (along with my sister-in-law’s multiple-times-a-day phone calls and micromanaging of their every move).

Over the last few years, she has slowly declined, until this past May when she had become dehydrated and hospitalized. We wondered if this could be an easy way out for her, but my sister-in-law insisted on running tons of tests and treating everything aggressively. So, she lived on. My sister-in-law decided the nursing home was being negligent, so she moved her to another one.

That began her real major cognitive and physical decline. It was too disorienting, and she begged my husband to get her sent back to the nursing home she was at before. He has no legal authority (sister-in-law does) to make any decisions. So, we just kept trying to calm her crying and visiting as we are able (she was moved to a place 3 hours away from us).

She has settled in a bit since then, but had another hospitalization for dehydration, and is cognitively very, very poor. We have no idea how long she will continue to go on. She also has pancreatic cancer now, and sister-in-law actually entertained the idea of treatment. We are hoping for hospice, but it’s out of our hands.

Looking back, if she had been able to get home after the hip fracture, she would have probably fallen again. We just couldn’t manage her daily needs anymore as things were. My husband was on the verge of a nervous breakdown a couple of times.

I appreciate your “lighter grip” on your emotional attachment to things with your mother. I wish my husband would have been able to untangle himself from it all more, but he’s really not going to have any peace until after she passes and is out of distress. I’m sure you understand how draining it is being plugged into it all on a daily basis.

In the end, staying at home could help her find the end she’s wanted more quickly. Or, it could make things more complicated. The same could go if she is moved to a nursing home. You just never know. I think you have to make the best decision you can for now, keeping in mind...
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DrowningDIL Jan 2020
...that your physcial and emotional well-being are AS IMPORTANT as hers. All the rest is just guessing, and even with hindsight, there may never be an answer that solves problems as big as these with any degree of satisfaction. Just remember that you still have a better ability to assess things than she does. All of her decision making is driven by fear. Yours has to be grounded in the best reality you can see, with as much clarity as you can get.

Whatever you choose, I wish you all the best and send you deep compassion from someone who understands.
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I think I have her sister living with us. We think she is a covert narcissist. At least that is the diagnosis we have come up with. She won’t be encouraged, seek therapy, take medication, get socially involved or do anything to make herself happier. She sits and waits in anger and bitterness, and resentment for everyone to come to her, call her, do things for her. She can be outright hateful, but usually is subtle and manipulative. There is no pleasing her (for more than a minute or two) She is also very fearful of everything, and basically so upset that she is not young, or working, or wealthy, or having gentlemen friends pursue her. I am doing my best, but she is so draining. She doesn’t want to ever be alone, even for an hour or two, and never after the sun goes down, which is now about 5:00 pm. I could go on and on. I wish venting helped. I understand that a narcissist is unable and unwilling to change. Just writing to support you. You’re in a difficult spot. My guess is that she doesn’t really want to die. She wants more attention, and more control. In short, life on her terms or she’ll make everyone feel guilty and miserable.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
I could not imagine living with my mom or anyone like her. I feel for you!
Mom thankfully has been taking anti anxiety meds and the edge is gone but she's crying much of the time. Hoping this will change after we move her and there's people around. She's thankfully not as mean as she used to be. This will bode well for her in AL!
best wishes
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Hello Gemmab, caring for your mom with Alzheimers is a huge challenge. No matter how much you wish to continue to want to help, it’s going to take a lot out of you. My therapist always told me to care for me #1 and then care for others. How your mom is responding to her situation can cause immense strain and stress for her and those around her. With Alzheimer’s, her brain is slowly dying. Her thoughts are of dying. My opinion is that once a person expresses that they want to die ( terminal illness especially) we can either not listen or listen to their thoughts. If you keep her home and are her caregiver, you will hear her thoughts repeatedly because your mom won’t remember she already expressed them.( it’s part of the disease). You can attempt to “redirect her thoughts” repeatedly. That in itself is an exhausting part of caregiving. If you choose to put her in assisted living, she will most likely be required to go to memory care since she already has Alzheimer’s. We did the placement for my parents when they reached the stage of late moderate because they would have died in their home from being a danger to themselves or others. Was that decision difficult?, YES. Both passed within two years of being placed. While at the facility, I was still heavily involved in their daily lives but I got to Physically leave the constant negativity whenever I wanted to. When it came time for hospice, I was thankful for others to be able to care for my parents. I’m still trying to cope with the passing of both my folks who both died from Alzheimer’s. I still question if I enabled them to live too long in their own home or if I sped things up by putting them in a facility. I cry daily and miss them terribly. Then I remember the quality of life they were living with their severely impaired minds. I’m thankful the suffering is over, and they are finally at peace together. I wish you strength as you travel the dementia path with your mom. Hugs to you.
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disgustedtoo Jan 2020
"I still question if I enabled them to live too long in their own home or if I sped things up by putting them in a facility."

There is no way, especially in retrospect, to figure this one out. You did the best you could at the time. You cared. You moved them when it was feasible.

My mother was moved into MC 3 years ago this month. She is now 96. The place (IL/AL/MC) was just rebuilt and so she was the first MC resident. Those who joined her shortly after are all gone (most have passed, some moved elsewhere and have likely passed as well.) Some residents are MUCH younger than she is (I *really* feel so bad for them as basically their life has been cut short! Some aren't even of early retirement age yet.) All relatives of mom's generation, both sides, are gone, as are some of my generation and most, if not all, of her former friends are gone. Yet she still ticks on... She has regressed in time and physical ability, but for the most part is "healthy" and I know that she is safe and cared for. When her time comes, it comes, there is nothing I can do to change that.

I think she is now the oldest resident. With or without dementia, we have no crystal ball to help us figure things out. Every person progresses at their own rate, so the best we can do is intervene if we think their living situation is unsafe/unhealthy - even then it can be difficult (mom refused in-home aides and refused to consider moving anywhere!) We had already planned to move her, and just before the move she developed cellulitis. Her neighbor called to let me know mom bruised her shin, but until my OB arrived, we had no idea how bad it was (snow and 4wd being out of commission, I couldn't check on her and he was arriving the next day.) Had we not planned this move, it likely would have killed her (it was pretty bad and required 2 rounds of antibiotics, wound care and stockings.) She didn't have enough sense left to understand how bad it was (previously she would call for ambulance for UTIs! this clearly, in her mind, wasn't important enough for that!)

Be kind to yourself. You can't change the past, you can just accept it and know you did what you thought was best for them.
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I may be mistaken but your mom may be exploiting your emotions for attention-seeking without guilt or shame that colludes of narcissistic behavior. Maybe it would be better to let her finances run out with living expenses so she can be put on Medicaid and nursing home. I am truly sorry you are going through this, but try to live your own life the best possible and leave her to her own devices and let her psychiatrist manage her behavioral problem.

I thank God I have no children but if I did I would never bring them down with this "me only" mentation. I do have a brother and after my mom died I cry everyday and feel so miserable without her even though she was 100% total care, I never been apart from her my entire life. She was my world. My brother calls me worried how I'm doing and I tell him I'm doing great adapting well so he will not have to worry about me. That is because I care about someone else, so I hide my suffering not to bring them down as he had his own issues with depression. I know how rotten life can be which is why I chose never to have children. The way things are going we probably are going to have a nuclear war with Iran so none of this will matter.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Oh goodness! I'm sorry to hear about your ongoing grief. I hope you find peace. You are meant to thrive and be joyful! Well, I am an eternal optimist.
I think at this point mom is mired in a pattern and because of the dementia her thought processes are compromised and she simply can't use conscious tools to get herself out. I've healed from her behaviors long ago and my spirit wouldn't tolerate leaving her to her own devices. She's simply unable to care for herself. She needs a safe place with people who can help her. So AL it is.
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My sister and I have been through many of the same things you've been through, except for the gaslighting and talk of dying. But when I look back, you and my sis and I have SO much in common. I hope you have medical/health POA. In my opinion, we let Mom live alone far too long, because she refused any help or even to move in with either of us. She subsisted on rootbeer and candy unless we got her out. We started attending a terrific care givers support group and our facilitator told us it would likely take some sort of accident or fracture to start the ball rolling. That's exactly what happened. We had to "trick" Mom into going with my sister to my sister's own doc appointment when the appt was actually for Mom. This had been pre-arranged with the doctor, who had prepped an ambulance to be ready to take her to the hospital. That was a terrible three day hell, where Mom went into delusional fits due to the discovery of a UTI and meds. Then to rehab to "buy" us time to make AL arrangements. We had done our homework in advance so knew where she'd be moving. It was the hardest and most painful thing I've ever been through. Mom is now in memory care (she's also 85, and physically strong), where she is safe, cared for in ways we could not, and secure. I guess we can't ask or expect much more. The first couple months were pure hell, and we couldn't visit her at all. Our first visits afterwards were terrible. Things have settled down somewhat. But through all this, we also learned that Mom has a psychological condition called anosognosia. It's essentially being in denial about anything regarding her health. Looking back, she's always been that way. While you mentioned you only have a few years of resources, perhaps some sort of alzheimer's association or senior services can help with advice and resources. We were also warned in our support group that if senior services got a bead on Mom's situation while she was still at home, not bathing, not eating, house in chaos, we could be at fault. She was also diagnosed with "failure to thrive," which sounds like what's happening with your mother. Whatever road you take, it will be difficult, but I can say I personally admire you for being able to overcome the years of mental abuse you lived through.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thank you for your kind words. Well, we are the 'walking wounded' I suppose! We plan to move her to AL before any sort of event compels us there. My mom has, IMO, failed to thrive her whole life. Unhealed trauma simply held her back from experiencing the joy she deserves. But we can only do so much for people.
I recommend the book Childhood Disrupted for you and your sister. best wishes
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I am in a very similar situation as yours, and started some counseling to help learn how to cope with my mother. I know it is harsh to hear (it was for me), but truly part of the problem may be you are unknowingly feeding into her cycle of negativity. By listening, accommodating, and dealing with her negativity, I harshly discovered I was enabling my own mother. When I set boundaries and stuck to them (aka calling 911 when she threatened to harm herself, as soon as the verbal abuse begins I suddenly need to leave/get off the phone, etc.) I have been able to cope with my own anxiety and abuse trauma which has led me to realize my mother is just a sad, scared old lady and I’m now able to distance myself emotionally. Remember she isn’t the mother she used to be—and that probably is both scary and embarrassing to her. I know it is hard, but you must find a way to get past your own emotions and you will be a much better caregiver and a lot less frustrated. I highly suggest counseling for you, especially if your mother isn’t willing. It will help more than you would ever imagine. Being a caregiver is hard for anyone—but especially under these circumstances. Trust me, I’m right there with you. May God bless you both in healing your hearts so you are able to enjoy what time you have left together.
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thanks! I've actually done a lot of healing around my mom, and am no longer emotionally triggered by her. I guess that didn't come across in my original post. Even so, no one is perfect and on days when I'm tired or not feeling up to it I just skip going or stay only a few minutes! I'm at the end of my skill set when it comes to the dementia and depression. SHe needs to be around professionals.
Talk therapy was never my go-to and I've relied more on somatic and energy work, NLP..in addition to writing, but there's so many wonderful healing options!
I recommend the book Childhood Disrupted. One of many that has been helpful on my path. best wishes in your healing!
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My mother must be your mother's twin! She has been miserable for as long as I can remember(even as far back into my childhood). I moved her in with me 2 yrs ago when her doctor told her she shouldn't live alone any longer, biggest mistake of my life! I have 4 children and 9 grandchildren, they will not visit because of the way their Gramma acts. We have just started the process of getting her on medicade so that will help pay for her to go to Al home. Some days she wants outta of " this hell hole" ( her words) and other days she cries she doesn't want to leave. She always talks about she is ready to die and wishes she could, I tell her she wants to so she wont but it really does take a tole on us caregivers state of mind to constantly have to deal with the wanting to die all the time. Not that I am glad your mom feels the way she does but glad that I am not alone. Best of luck to all of us!!
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
I hope you can move her out as soon as possible with ease and grace! I couldn't possibly have my mom live with me. best wishes in reclaiming your energy and your life!
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Kuddos Gemmab123
for hanging in there and putting up with an abusive parent.
I do believe she needs to be moved.
How you get her moved I’m not sure. Take what helps you from these posts and leave the rest.
Best of luck
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gemmab123 Jan 2020
Thank you! Luckily I'm good at improvisation but I'm sure the story of the move will be worth a share! Haha!
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Check into Medicaid tha twil pay her way if you wish for her to go and Stay....Other than That, You are Enabling he rto stay longer and be miserable but even if she went into another Place, She would be this but have Round the Clock Care over There. Many feel like this when in this situation and they know the end is coming...
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My mom gave up on living after my youngest sister passed from cancer (my dad has passed five years prior and it took a while to get her out of that depress ion.) Although she was on several medications for depression and anxiety, she no longer wanted to live. She wanted to stay in her own home, so my sister and I made sure she could do that by coming by everyday to make sure she had meals she could heat in microwave, do some cleaning (when she’d let Us), pay bills, monitor meds, etc. She shut herself off from friends and siblings over time refusing to go out and do things. We did attend doctor’s appts with her and her meds were changed several times but she was determined that she wanted to go to Heaven to be with my dad and sister (her words.) Her doctor called it failure to thrive when she passed. She did have physical pain from advanced RA but when she determined she didn’t want to live any longer, there wasn’t much we could do to change her mindset. We tried many things to no avail. I’m sorry for your situation.
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My 91 year old father was still in the home with my 88 year old mother.
My dad had wanted to move to Apartment but mom would not leave her backyard. We moved them 4 blocks from us, when health declined. Dad fell got a traumatic brain injury . Even though they both had buttons, my mother didn’t use it, called me 6 hour later. Daddy died 3 months later in nursing home.My parents were kind most of the time. I am so sorry your mother is so difficult. Caregiving is so hard . Mom refused to move out of house. she declined immediately. After 6 months we moved her in with us. She swears we tricked her. We had discussed it over and over. She has dementia. mom lived with us for 7 months, I sold her house in Oct and she moved to AL. she would rather live with me , but we couldn’t .
leave her alone for even an hour
Mom tells me everyday that she doesn’t want to be on this earth. my mom misses daddy. Our family visits about 20 hours per week. Just as we made the decision mom could not live alone we made the decision for AL. I am not trained to deal with dementia. Mom needed to be around people that were experiencing the things she had. She has a lovely apartment, 3 meals and snacks a day, All her meds are administered by staff. When she makes comments about wanting die, I tell when god decides it’s time, she will.
When she calls 4-5 times a day wanting me to come over, I tell her to push her call button, she gets mad at me and hangs up. I pray too that God gives you strength to make decisions with her welfare in mind, and yours also .
my parents gave me POA and medical proxy, cause the older brother who was executor of wills , had proved he couldn’t be bothered with their care. My dad and my brothers have butted heads for years. Also if when your visiting Al and Nh Be sure and talk with the financial office,they have information on financial programs we are not privy too. Good luck
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Val622 Jan 2020
Sound like my life. My dad dies two years ago. Then my brother. I moved my mom to AL. I wouldn’t of been able to leave my mom alone for a minute either. Two years later and my mom still wants to die. She has a granddaughter getting Married. Her two granddaughter were her and my dads whole life. Now she doesn’t even care. Sometimes she’s angry at me for no reason and throws me out. Then next visit she will say she never sees me. It’s so hard. I know what your going through. ❤️❤️
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