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The only thing I feel upset or guilty about is that I haven’t called her or gone to the hospital at all. In her mind she thinks I hate her and want her dead. She doesn’t know that I’m trying to keep her safe and behind the scenes trying to get her the care she needs. I see how she shuts down and stops talking to people. She didn’t talk to her brothers family for 4 years. Then when she went to a psych facility in 1976 for making harassment calls to her sister n law and brother n law she never spoke to them again. I’m just having pangs about whether I should call her or go visit her.
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Katsmihur Feb 2020
My parents cut people out of their lives, too, because of stupid reasons. Mom hasn’t responded to my letters or calls in weeks, hasn’t asked about her grandchildren - all because she didn’t get her car keys returned from me.

Don’t worry about Mom being mad at you. She’ll get over it. And if not, you stay busy with your life. Self care, my dear, self care.

* I’m speaking to myself here, as well. *
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Hi Barbbrooklyn, Needhelpwithmom, lealonnie, exhausted piper and everyone!! No updates yet. I haven’t talked to my mother. I called the social worker and she said she would get back to me later. I did talk to the nurse at her family doctor and she did talk to the social worker and filled her in on everything. The nurse also called APS and filled her up n on everything but told the nurse it would be denied because she is in the hospital. They can’t get involved if she is in the hospital. The hospital needs to take over. So now I sit back and wait. I’m not going up to the hospital unless the social worker wants to see me alone and I will show her the pictures.
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Elaine how are you feeling this morning? I just got caught up on this thread and I am so sorry for all that you are dealing with, but you have gotten great advice and you are holding strong, good for you! You are doing what is best for your mother.

I am hoping that you can have your mom admitted as Barb said and have FULL mental health evaluation including for mental illness.

I hope you are doing okay. I'm sending you all the positive vibes I can and along with everyone here we are holding your hand as you go through this challenging time.

Huge hug {{{{Elaine}}}}}
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Hang in there, Elaine

I feel like things are going to turn around for you and your mom. She will finally be where she needs to be, out of her two story home, and you will have peace of mind knowing that you are doing what is best for her. She will acclimate to her new surroundings.

Sending loads of good thoughts your way. 💗
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Elaine; You started out your post saying that you are scared.

Try to figure out what is scaring you. If you are afraid that your mother may die, then that's pretty normal.

If you are afraid of your mother's wrath, or of being " investigated" or made to feel that you should be taking your mother home with you, please be aware that you are doing the RIGHT THING. And should feel no guilt.
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Thank you for all your responses!! Everyone is in agreement and that is a lot of you!! Thank you for brainstorming with me.
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Barb, your right about the snow removal. Last year I called someone to plow and they did and I would put it on my credit card and she would reimburse me. This winter she doesn’t look out the window with all the clutter and has been sleeping all day and up all night and since she is always mad at me I didn’t bring up she owed me money. I only had to call twice this year and I paid for it. She also hadn’t been going to the bank lately to take out money. So more depressed and sleeping this winter than last. I fact the other day she couldn’t write out an envelope so I did it. She also said before she dialed 911 yesterday morning, she tried to write a bill and couldn’t do it. I have to tell the doctor that too!! I hope they send her to a psychiatric hospital for months. At least she would be taken care of there too. She has 35,000 in her checking account, her house, her social security, and half my fathers pension. That’s all of it. It can all be used for her care.
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P.S. I dont see why it's your responsibility to shovel her snow.

As POA, you can hire someone to do snow removal using her funds, but I suppose she would have to agree. If you have access to her checking account, I would hire a service to do that.
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Push the hospital to ADMIT mom (maybe her doctor can help with that).

If she is admitted for 3 nights, she can go to rehab, paid by Medicare.

"Psych eval" is most likely a mini mental exam, which she will pass. She needs a full scale, in patient mental health workup in a psychiatric hospital. You need to have her evaluated for mental illness, not just competency.

This is something to discuss, via the portal with her family doctor, as well.

Elaine, this is like just the beginning of the journey. Getting your mother the help she needs means that YOU have to step back, disengage and not enable her. Please remember that.
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I promise to update everyone tomorrow.
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Oh wow golden. I’m sorry you went through that with your mother. But I am glad everything worked out!! I hope everything works out with my mom. I can see it definitely helps me staying away. She was in the hospital on Thursday and they couldn’t release her fast enough!!! This time around she is in observatory and since I told them everything I did they said she was having a psych evaluation.
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golden23 Feb 2020
thx elaine - it has been a lifetime of going through stuff. This last phase was not the worst but it was bad enough. I found that once the appropriate professional people were involved - geriatric psychiatrists and more, I could relax somewhat and watch it happen, just stepping in as called in or needed. it was a big relief.
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Oh Barbbrooklyn, your answers are so encouraging and helpful to me. I was feeling so scared at 5:00pm but now I am feeling confident thanks to you and ALL of you out there!! A big SHOUT OUT to all of you. Thank you so much!!! My mothers family doctor called APS but had to leave a message. I am also calling her family doctor in the morning to call the hospital like she said she would. I also wrote 3 more portal messages to her family doctor saying it is imperative she doesn’t go home and call the hospital. I am also going to call the social worker also in the morning. I’m not calling or seeing my Mother.
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(((((((hugs)))))) and prayers. elaine. Your can do this - you are doing this. As Barb says - even if, and I am not suggesting she won't but, even if she doesn't get placed this go around, she will end up in hospital again.

I would keep contact with her to a minimum for the time being - detach -emotionally distance yourself. Walk away from and do nothing from fear, obligation and guilt. You are acting in your mother's best interests whether she likes it or not.

With her issues - hoarding, lack of self care, depression etc, she absolutely needs a full psych evaluation.

My mother was in a geriatric psychiatric hospital for about 9 months. They did a full assessment. It took a while before she agreed to take the meds. Once she did, it was a different and much better ball game. Then she was placed successfully in AL.

You are doing well!!!!
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One more thing, Elaine. Your mother has groomed you for a lifetime to feel guilt. YOU are not guilty YOU have not done anything wrong.

Find yourself a therapist who can help you work on these triggers.

When you see the SW tomorrow, ask about having your mother sent to a psychiatric facility for evaluation ESPECIALLY if they suggest that because she is competent, they want to send her home.

Write down a list: hoarding, panic attacks, alcoholism, refusal to seek medical care, inability to manage medications and renewals, refusal or inability to perform basic hygiene, grooming or dressing.

Present this dispassionately and calmly. Mention that you have guardianship of your adult son (that both establishes you as a person who has been found responsible by the courts AND that you already have a lot on your plate).

If they say they are sending her home in a cab, ask for an occupational therapist to evaluate her home as a place she can be safely discharged to.

Good luck and let us know how you make out! (((((Hugs)))))).

Even if she doesn't get placed this go round, EMS will have called her in to APS. If she goes home, she will end up hospitalized again soon. As long as you don't show up to take her home, they will get the message.
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Thank you Barbbrooklyn for all your answers!! I wrote them all down. I feel prepared now for tomorrow. I never did call an elder lawyer today because this all happened so fast. Perhaps I will need him in the near future for his expertise on the house and Medicaid eligibility.
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Some information on POA:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/durable-power-of-attorney-health-finances-29579.html
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"Mom, you are not safe at home. I love you too much to let you go home to an unsafe place. Talk to the Social Worker about what the next steps are. I can't help you go home because I would ne putting your life in danger. I love you. Bye"

Do not get into a discussion. Don't engage in back and forth. Don't upset her by telling her about the open doors.

The cards are all in your hands if you play them correctly. You have to not succumb to her manipulation.

To answer a question from a couple of posts back, if you go no contact, you can call the police to do wellness checks.

Don't act up at the hospital to incite your mother. How she treats you has nothing to do with anything. This is about whether or not she is competent. She is mentally ill but not unable to understand the risk she is taking. It is HER bad choice to take risks

You have no obligation to enable her.
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What should I say to my Mother when she calls me tomorrow? I guess that is what my question is. What do I say to her? Should I tell her she needs to go to assisted living or let the hospital tell her? What should I tell her if she asks me to come see her tomorrow? Just listing all the different scenarios. Thank you
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Tothill Feb 2020
Elaine, you do not answer the phone when Mum calls tomorrow. You let it go to voice mail. Then you can ask a friend to listen to the message and relay it only if it is important. And as Mum is in the hospital receiving the care she needs, it will not be important.

You let the SW at the hospital do their job. They can tell her it is an unsafe discharge, they can tell her Mum can no longer live in her home. It is not your job.
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Oh thank you barbbrooklyn for letting me know this!! It's good to know being POA doesn't mean i can force her to do anything. You are so right about this. I am NOT going to the hospital or talking to her at the hospital. I will only go see the social worker in private with all my lovely pictures!!! One more question, what do I do when my Mother calls me tomorrow begging me to come pick her up?
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Being her POA does not allow you to force her to do anything. It allows you to carry out her wishes.

You know she needs professional care. Hopefully by tomorrow, the hospital will know it too.

I would NOT go to visit your mother. Go to see the SW. Do not interact with mom. She will manipulate and guilt you.

If the SW staff tell you that being her POA obligates you to take her home (it doesn't) tell them that you are resigning as her POA. If they tell you that they will call APS, tell them to go right ahead and thank them for doing that.

In short, do not let them make you believe that YOU are doing anything wrong. You have the right to your life. You cannot be made to do hands on care for your mother.
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NYDaughterInLaw Feb 2020
Excellent advice, as usual.
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Also, I might add I do have POA and I am her healthcare proxy. But that’s it. I’m not her guardian.
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Thank you dollyme!!! I appreciate your kind words!!
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Barbbrooklyn thank you so much for your support!! Alvavdeer thank you so much for your support!!! All of you, thank you so much for your support!!! I appreciate it so much!! My head is pounding but at least I know what to say and do tomorrow!! Do not send her home!! It’s an unsafe discharge!! I will get the social worker alone and show her all the pictures!!! When I went over there today, her front door was wide open and so was the backdoor from when the EMT’s were there. I should tell her that right before she had her assessment. She will go ballistic if she knows her doors were wide open in this freezing cold. Nobody went on and stole anything, the hoarding mess was still there.
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I don't have anything to add, the previous posters covered it. I just wanted to LYK that you are in my thoughts, you will handle this! Sending support your way.
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If they find her competent and she gets home in a cab then she has proved to them (and you) that she is competent to care for herself.

If she calls you for help (panic attack, breathing troubles, etc) you call 911 and have them deal with it. If it's an EMERGENCY, then EMERGENCY services need to intervene, not you.

YOU are powerless, except in your ability to step back and let the professionals do their jobs. Dont let your mother or anyone else manipulate you into sacrificing your life, your health or your livelihood. And tell your son to back off as well.
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Hon, this is your OPPORTUNITY. Right here and right now. Most people have to do an ER DUMP (taking the elder to the ER and refusing to take the elder home). You had it done FOR YOU. Now is your opportunity. Yes, DO MEET with Social Services but tell them that you will not meet with your mother and them together FIRST. That you want to meet with only social services. Take your pictures. Tell them all you told us. STRESS "unsafe", "in danger" "will not cooperate". Tell them that you WILL NOT be responsible and if they send her home they are doing an "UNSAFE DISCHARGE". It is very important you use these words. They will tell you all kinds of lies. They will say "We can help; we can get you help; we can all work together". They cannot. Only for a short time and then very costly. Tell them you are ABSOLUTELY not going to be responsible for your mother. Ask them to do a state guardianship or whatever they want to but you will not be involved excepting to visit her. Tell them you will not accept her to your home, and sending her home is "unsafe discharge". They will do anything to unload her on you. Do not let them. THEN you can meet with her and Social Services. But not until you LAY DOWN THE LAW.
Now, do know if you say you do not want power of attorney and guardianship, then your mother will be basically a ward of the state. They will take care of her and her home. They will do it all. BUT you will not have any say about where she is placed. So that has to be something you know.
Your Mom will not cooperate. It is time for them to take over. Good luck. Know that if she is in 5 days she can go to rehab. Likely needs the care, and another good opportunity to reinforce that she cannot go home, you will not take her home, and sending her home is unsafe. On the phone tell Mom you love her but she needs help now and won't accept it from you.
We are all in your corner. I don't think a single person here is in disagreement with what you need to do, and on the forum THAT'S RARE! Thinking of you and pulling for you. THIS is best for your Mom, too, thought she won't see that for a long time.
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All of you have been my ray of light!!! You have all picked me up and carried me high!!! Thank you everyone!! I pray I haven done all of this for nothing and they turn around and send her home!!! I have made up my mind. I am not going to the hospital. Period.
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AlvaDeer Feb 2020
The next person who calls you, and they WILL, you need to say that her leaving the hospital is unsafe and sending her home/allowing her to go home is unsafe discharge, and they will be held responsible for placing her in danger.
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I mean seriously, what happens if my worst fears happen? Passes the test and takes a cab home. Then what?? APS hasn’t contacted her doctor and the hospital only wanted to keep her overnight!!!!
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AlvaDeer Feb 2020
If that happens then you have to wait for it to come to this. The truth is that your Mom is playing with her life; she may not understand that and she may not care, but it is the truth.
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Thank you shad and artist daughter!! I appreciate your responses!!! The only way it could get worse is if she is found competent and she takes a cab home. Then what? What if after all this she is found competent and she takes a cab home. What do I do then? She is very manipulative and conniving!!!!!
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Tothill Feb 2020
Elaine, if she is found to be competent and takes a cab home you do nothing at all. You continue living your life. You are no longer available to offer Mum support.

She cannot manipulate you if you refuse to take her calls.
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Good luck to you
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