Is it normal she's so negative?

Jewel, that sequence of events, texting you literally one minute after she'd agreed that you should call her back… to be honest, that would make me suspect she'd texted the wrong person by accident. It's easily done. Maybe someone she wasn't too keen to talk to but didn't want to tell to bog off?

What matters is having a conversation with her, anyway, so don't sweat it. Hope you get hold of her and it proves constructive!

Therapy doesn't always need to be with a therapist, in an office. I don't have time for that and have really only had one person who actually helped. Bless you Joan, wherever you are.

I have gotten a lot of therapy on my own from books, websites, and support groups like this. Principles of Buddhism really hit it with me, but I am not Buddhist. A lot of the ideas are so helpful. E.g.. healing the Mother Wound.

I'm an information collector by nature anyway, so I'd rather use a book/workbook than meet with a person anyway. I know someone in the field, and yes, therapists can need therapy just as much as their own patients. Finding a good one you click with is work, and you might need to see several people in the process. And good luck with that in the US. If you happen to have coverage, it's probably very limited in what it covers, how many visits, and who you can see. It's not setup for patient convenience, so it's really hard to get started. And who starts therapy when everything is going fine, so you are already "in" with someone when crisis hits?

I benefit from being face to face, in a room, for a 50-minute hour (lol), with an attentive, informed, compassionate person, LISTENING to ME. I don't expect them to have all the answers -- and they don't. But often enough, they have good instincts and some valuable insight.
I think mine takes insurance, but I pay out of pocket. Her rate isn't sky high, and I only go every 3 weeks, so it's manageable now.
Like sandwich said, collecting information in other ways has been enormously helpful for me too, so I've done a lot of that. I began with investigating stress management, which lead to meditative techniques, which lead me as well to Buddhist philosophies. And on I went, exploring from a psych p.o.v. things like family dysfunction, addiction/enabling/co-dependence, NPD, trauma bonding (yes, it's a thing!), and so on. I also really enjoy reading memoirs--mostly of comedians and chefs, for some reason. I have gained a lot, just from reading the viewpoints of people, putting their own lives into perspective.

looloo, I also like reading memoirs. Have you read the 3 books by Frank McCourt (now deceased) and the 3 by Jeannette Walls, The Glass Castle and Half-broke Horses? They all are excellent reads.

Sorry, TWO memoirs by Jeannette Walls, not 3.

1butterfly, I haven't read either author's books -- but I've been wanting to read Jeanette Walls' for a while now! Did Frank McCourt write that one, "Angela's Ashes"? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Yes, looloo. He wrote Angela's Ashes, 'Tis and Teacher Man. I had checked them out at the library...loved them so much I got my own copies from a thrift shop. Same with Jeannette Walls' books...just located & bought them at a used book store. She has a fiction book out but I have not read it.

Jewel--what's happening?

Something that has helped me dealing with my mom's dementia is realizing that whatever her feeling is at that moment, that's all she can deal with. If she's in pain, she's always been in pain and no one is doing anything about it, no one ever will and she cries. If she hasn't seen me since last week, it's been "so long since I've seen you", yes, I live nearly two hours away but that isn't something she's comprehending or remembering. It's all about the present moment and if I talk about how she was happy yesterday, yes, she would experience that as contradicting or fussing at her. My mantra is "we can't fix this". We can visit (visits are short) but omg, the hours I spend on the phone arranging, advocating, waiting for calbacks while ting to work and manage a household, etc are excruciating and wearing. Kudos to us all!

Good Morning everyone--it is so hard when we daughters (and sons) give so much of our time and energy and devotion to mothers or fathers who take us for granted. It can be downright exhausting and depleting. A rough week with my mother--taking her to the doctor, leaving work, calling the doctor, pharmacies, errands, cleaning, staying with her, etc. She was really pretty sick with a UTI, even throwing up, so I stayed with her through the day and waited until late evening to see if she was still nauseous. When she had to take her pill, she got nauseated. At 10:30 PM she was still not okay so I said I would stay until she was. She wanted to know if I would spend the night? I said I really didn't want to. I was exhausted and I wanted to get my rest at home and see my husband, but I wouldn't leave her until I knew she was okay. I stayed until 3AM (slept a little) and she was awake then and said she wasn't feeling nauseous anymore and she was walking around feeling better, although not sleeping. I told her I would leave and be back at 7:30, and I was. I started the day with mom, we agreed she was okay after awhile, went to work, and headed straight over to her place after work. Of course, doctor calls, pharmacy calls, errands, etc., continued. I get it--she was sick and needed help. I am pretty much always there for her when she needs it. I am typically over her house twice per day--in the mnorning I let out her dog and feed it so she can rest--and then often stop by after work, plus I see her both days on the weekend. I am the only child, and mny husband is spending tons of time with his mother--

Well, two days after she was on the mend, she called me in the morning, and WHAP! She proceeded to tell me what an awful daughter I was because I didn't tell her I would love to spend the night when she was sick. A good daughter would have done that. She was on a tirade. I went over as always before work and she continued to berate me and attack me for three or four things I said over the years that hurt her--one of them was from when I was 16! I am 62! Anyway, I left for work, and I was down, but I was also proud of myself. I felt more detached this time--not like a scared little girl. This was progress. During the day she called and left a message that she thought about things and realized I do many nice things for her. I appereciated that, but again, I didn't become elated like a little girl when mommy would finally pat me on the head and praise me. This was also progress! Then, when I went to see her, she said how glad she was that we had that "conversation." She asked me if I was glad. I told her that she had said many hurtful things, but I was glad it helped her. She asked didn't it help me? I told her it did not--that I never try to say things that are intentionally hurtful. She said well it was a good thing for both of us because she got rid of much "poison" (she doesn't realize that she sheds her "poison" several times a year at least...) She then told me that she finally realized that we were not the same people--that we were very different. She explained that my birth had been difficult (that story has been told thousands of timnes :-)) and because of it she felt that we were like one person. I have ALWAYS felt as though she would not let me individuate--that I had to fight and scrape for any sense of freedomn. So, this was somewhat enlightening. We shall see if she remembers all of this today, or if she decides I am a pretty worthless--could go either way. But, you know what? I am feeling stronger, at least for now, and it is freeing. I have SO MUCH more work to do, but something seems to be happening to free my spirit a bit. Does this make sense?

njny: I am glad you feel some sort of freedom. If you didn't want to spend the night, that is okay. I really wish you could find someone to take the morning shift before work or if not, at least the afternoon shift. A few times a week would be a start. That is one thing I am glad that I do not have to go everyday anymore. Even though I realize this is the trigger to a lot of my mom's anger toward me. She has been mad/angry at me most of my life though. I always do "it" the wrong way--well, not "her" way....which is the wrong way in her mind.

I did get to talk to the director and she agreed they would help me with my mom at the eye doctor. She even offered to bring her to the appointment and meet me so I wouldn't have to go to the AL to get her. After being very excited about that, I realized I have to go do her pills before we go to the appointment. I am NOT going tomorrow to visit. I have made up my mind. She did tell me my mom had a great week--well, I am glad someone did Ha! I have been a nervous wreck all week while my mom is just fine. Of course the narcissist doesn't tell what happens, it would look bad on her, right? I mentioned a few things and the director even told me--knowing me from before--that my mom has tortured me all my life. It is so true and still torturing me even though I have practically given my life to her. I can honestly say that I am NOT trying to torture my mom back or do this as a "punishment" for her. I am trying to protect myself from her mind torturing drama. Am I worried about what will transpire after tomorrow? ABSOLUTELY! I am nervous about what she is going to say to me on Monday when I call her to tell her of her eye appointment. This is probably going to be the start of an ugly battle, but I am armored up and getting prepared. I am sure her car, her money, her things, everything that I am now in charge of will be the topic of conversation. She will find a way to still make me feel worthless.
The director (which is an acquaintance of mine from school) told me it is okay that I don't come and it is okay that I don't make any comments to some of the things that she says. We already sit in awkward silence.

I will be definitely be on my knees tonight for sure praying for strength to help me enjoy tomorrow and not cave in.

Detach.

Njny--you're handling an awful lot, and it sounds like you're doing a great job.
Jewel, that's great that you have an ally in the director! Although I know it shouldn't matter whether or not anyone really understands or believes us, when they do, it's SO, SO nice.
I heard from my mother's doctor's office on Thursday morning. He agreed to provide the letter I requested (simply stating that due to dementia, she can no longer handle her affairs). I had been pushing for this really hard since July, but it's actually been about a year in the making. So many hurdles, one after the other...
Anyway, I asked the nurse if she could fax or email to me. NO, she can't. Why? I have no idea. She offered to mail it (why can it be mailed, but to emailed or faxed??? Who knows, it's a mystery), but I figured that was just tempting fate, so I said I would make the drive and pick it up today. So I did. Left my house at 8 a.m. Traffic was pretty smooth, so got back home at 2 p.m.
I spoke to the guy at the bank yesterday afternoon. I don't expect someone who's not "in the trenches" to really understand dementia, but it still gets frustrating. He said things like, "Can you just explain to her....." Um, NO, I can't.
Is anyone reading about Amanda Bynes? She's the former child/teen actress who is obviously very mentally ill. Very sad. Anyway, her parents have conservatorship, but she was just released from the hospital. She doesn't trust her parents at all, and therefore, her parents are powerless to do anything really. They're in a similar situation to mine--where we get to "wait" for the incident where their daughter ends up having a medical emergency. Why it was decided to release her from the hospital is just beyond me.

Looloo, I hear that same all the time!! "Just explain to her, just tell her" Really? There isn't any explaining anything to a mentally ill person--whether it be dementia, or any other type of mental illness. When someone has had a "normal" life with their parent, they definitely do not understand any of this. About 6 months ago I had to finally call the bank and tell them NOT to give out any information over the phone. My mom was hinting to the caregivers staying in the home with her to help her call and get her balance and a statement. I am not hiding anything, it is just my mom cannot handle her affairs--it has been proven after three house sales and cashing in IRA to pay the difference, then lost more money by just taking what they offered to get out from under the house. Some people have said, why didn't you stop her. OK?! Well, let me tell you, you do not stop a person that has determination and doesn't tell you their every move. Of course, this was 3 years ago, when I finally realized something wasn't right. I did get POA and she hold that over my head every week and she tells her sister to NEVER let her kids have POA. Ha! My mom thinks I can just do what ever I want with her, but that is not what it means. It is frustrating, but just keep plucking along and those type of things will fall in place, loo loo.

It is Sunday at 1:00 and I have not called nor gone to visit my mom. I am praying she doesn't call me. If she does, I plan on not answering. Tomorrow though I do have to call about her eye appointment and then Tuesday go do her pills and get her to the appointment with help from the AL, of course! I am trying not to worry how our conversation will go tomorrow. She may tell me to forget it and cancel her appointment.--then I will! I am NOT going to beg her anymore to be what I need her to be. I realize her dementia makes her say no to everything, but believe me when I say she is better compared to last summer. She is so much like herself again, besides a few minor details. It is hard to differentiate between the dementia and my mom now. When the doctor told me last summer not to let her tell me no, I took it to heart and did things for her anyway and reaped the repercussions. Then the hospice doctor told me not to make her do anything. Ask, then if she says no, say ok and know that you did attempt. So that is the story and I am sticking to it now... :-) When she said go home, I went home. When she says, forget it, I am not going to the eye doctor, then she won;t go. Liberating, that feels good!!!

Hope everyone enjoys their Sunday, I am planning on it.

Jewel - Hire a Certified Medication Aid (CMA) from a local nursing agency to go setup that darn pill box. This should be paid for by your mother's account, not you.

My mother broke a tooth months ago, and refuses to see any dentist. The onsite dentist or my dentist. The only dentist she will agree to is 1800 miles away in NC, and that "ain't happenin". So, she has a broken tooth. It must not cause her pain. When it does, I'm sure she will be willing to let somebody fix it. Or, it will give her an abcess that puts her in the hospital. I don't loose any sleep over it.

I was going to add that it sounds to me like she needs to be in a facility that offers more levels of care so you can step out of the crazy. Are you looking ahead to that, so you have a plan in place? There won't be any big announcements that day has come. You will just be run more ragged and made more and more crazy by the situation. This is me politely ordering you to get it together. She needs to be placed before her need level shoots up like a rocket. Medication management will turn into administration assistance, which turns into help with ADLs, and on and on.

I count my lucky stars every day I could get my mom into a facility that can do it all and handle the insurance/Medicare billing. Not everbody has access to this. I am not willing to run myself ragged, obsess over it, and basically let it ruin my life. We stopped seeing the kidney specialist completely because with all mom's other problems, this wasn't the highest priority.

The geriatric doctors she sees now go onsite, and all testing is done onsite. The nursing staff prepare & administer meds, do blood draws, etc. I would be a basket case if I had to do that myself even after placing her into care. Otherwise, what was the point of going into care?

Hi everyone, happy Monday! This morning, I was scanning the letter from my mother's doctor so I have an e-copy of it, and as I was saving it, I noticed another matter I had taken care of for her (a tax error), almost 2 years ago. So, we're coming up on 2 years of my beginning to take over her affairs, with this past year being all matters. Today, I will also be handling one small thing for her IRA, and will try to schedule her appointment with the second neurologist.
Sandwich -- if my mother doesn't agree to go see this doc (it's the second referral now, since she refuses to see the previous one), then I'm with you! No more wasting everyone's time, trying and trying again.
It's been almost 2 weeks since I've heard from her annoying neighbor, which is great. Hope it keeps up. Maybe 3 weeks ago, I collected my thoughts and responded to her previous onslaught of questions, and also let her know (pretty clearly, I thought) that her anxiety was overwhelming, that her questions and concerns continued to focus on things that I had no control over and that were outside her scope of responsibility (I was trying to say in a diplomatic way that she was being a pot-stirring nosy-body), and that I thought it was time for her to 'step back'. About 8 days passed, with no response, but then she emailed me, and didn't seem to register anything I'd said. Again with too many questions, too much prying, too much angsting, and more than a little implying that I wasn't doing enough. All I could think of to do was to wait to respond, and then I just very curtly answered the 1 or 2 questions that I felt weren't too instrusive. I didn't pad the email with any niceties, and didn't sign off by saying "thanks" or "have a wonderful week." So, maybe this will do the trick? I'm afraid to be too hopeful. But I really do NOT want to hear from her at all.
I didn't know there was such a thing as a CMA! I'm keeping this tip in my pocket in case we need it... :)

Sandwich--I do have a "plan". I figure in 15 years, my mom with be 84 and out of money. At this time it will be appropriate to put her in the NH. Then she will qualify for medicaid being she will be broke.--and I will still be broke Ha! That is okay because there isn't enough money to pay me to take her in full time. I do take peace in knowing I didn't do that. I also have a back up plan for pill box if I need to do so. A lady that used to stay with her has offered to go once a week if I need her to. She can go to the grocery and do the pills. She would be reasonable as far as pricing. Once all the elections are over--tomorrow--thank goodness, I am working on a plan for our state to take part in a voucher that 35 other states have taken part in. This voucher would help pay for AL if a person qualifies rather than the expense of a NH. So HOPEFULLY, this plan will work out and my mom won't have to move at all. She can stay at the AL with medicaid helping pay for that when she is out of money instead of NH. Not to say that she will not need NH care by then, but, the way she is going; she will be just as physically healthy as she is now. Her genes are against me, LOL!! This will take much time and effort, but I am working diligently on this project. It will benefit so many, not just my mom.

I survived last week and the weekend! YAY! After work today I called the dreaded lady. She did NOT answer my call. I laughed out loud thinking about her pouting in her apartment looking at my phone number come across her caller id. How childish!!? Do you see what I mean? I thought, fine, missy, you just sit there and sulk. I waited about an hour and called back. Still did not answer. An hour later, I had decided if she didn't answer this time, I was telling the director they could just take her. Well, she decided to answer the phone. (in a low, depressed voice, helloo) I cut straight to the chase. I didn't even say hello or how are ya, or anything. I just said, "I made you an eye doctor appointment for tomorrow and I will call the director and get someone to go with us to help." "you appointment is at 12:45 and I will take my lunch at that time and after your appointment, I will go back to work". SILENCE!!!

Mom: hmmm, tomorrow?
Me: yes, tomorrow
mom: I don't know what to do
me: let me know
mom: no one can go to help it's too much trouble
me: no, it's not, they will help
mom: I don't know what to do
me: I will tell you what, I will call the director and tell her we need help, then I will call you tomorrow to make sure you will still go.
mom: alright then
me: okay, bye talk to you tomorrow
mom: bye

YAY!!! I got off the phone and called the director and left the rest up to her.
I will go do a pill box to last another week and get my mom to the doctor, then get the heck out of dodge. Another successful week. I have been less stressed this week and it felt so good. I want that feeling all the time--at least away from this situation. After talking to the director let me tell you what really peeves me off about my mom, maybe you all can relate. I asked her how my mom had been this week being I didn't call or go see her. She told me that my mom got dressed the other day and came out for trick or treaters. Oh, really?! She acts like to me she is the most miserable woman that lives on earth. She wont get dressed, she sits with a sulky face the whole time and complains. I am glad she had a good time, I want her to do that. I just wish I could enjoy that with her, but it is NEVER going to happen, because she will NEVER want me to see her enjoy herself. She wants me to live miserable as she makes me think she is.

Looloo: Good job trying to get through to the neighbor. Hopefully she will get the hint, or not.

Thought for the day: If you focus on results, you will never change. If you focus on change, you will get results. (I pray for courage to change)

Jewel I love that last line, so true

Today was the eye doctor appointment. I got there to do her pills and guess what? She did her own pills!! What? You say. Yes, she did her own freaking pill box!! This woman that has depended so much on me and has caused havoc in my life, fixed her own darn pills. I did not look at them too closely, didn't want to open a can of worms, so I put them quickly back in the cabinet. This is a ploy to "show me" that she can do things for herself.--like live alone.

Awkward silence filled the air today as we waited for the time to go. She didn't say a word, not one word to me. I tried to spark conversation, but it didn't work. I could feel the tension and the pouting. She is back to her normal self. I think it was Judda that mentioned about hydrating them and to be careful how we hydrate. We hydrated her back to the "old" self. I am now confused at her illness. Is she really as sick as I thought or is she just better. How do they get better when diagnosed with dementia? I do still see the confusion, but she even remembered her social security number today at the appointment. I was filling out papers and asked her for it--because I don't have it memorized, she blurted it out like a phone number.--but in another sense, she didn't remember her mother having glaucoma and it was about three years ago.

She talked to the girl that went with us and she talked to the doctor, but didn't say a word to me other than answer my questions or have a smirky comment to my "conversation". She even smiled and laughed at the doctor--he is the best eye doctor around--smart, funny and a GREAT outlook on life. He stated she had a floater (duh, I think I told her that, but it wasn't good enough, of course, it came from the no good daughter that doesn't know anything) She kept asking several times what it meant and what to do about it.--she will be confused about it for a while. She understands there isn't anything he can do for it. He said to her, but I took in what he said, "Let's not worry about what we can't do today, do not worry about things that we cannot control". I had to look twice because I thought he was talking to me. He told her to put it out of her mind and don't worry about what we cannot change. WOW! I wish I had his outlook.--I used to honestly until I had to start dealing with her on a regular basis. Before she became ill, I didn't deal with her as much so I could have peace in between calls and visits. Now, it is a daily thing. Who knew it could be so daunting?!

After finishing at the appointment, I drove her back and the girl met us at the door. I told my mom I had to go back to work and I would let her walk her back in. She wouldn't even look up at me, I asked for a hug and she barely hugged me. She is SO mad. Ha! How sad to choose to live your life so miserable. It also amazes me that a parent can be so mad at a child like that. I, as a parent, do get upset with my children, but it is more about choices they make and trying to guide them--NOT because they don't do enough for me. This is not about me, but my mom makes it about her. Narcississtic!!! As I looked at her today while in the room at the doctor, with her head turned away from me the entire time, I realized how she really is. I noticed this sad, pathetic, angry, pouty, woe is me, narcississtic person that I call mom. Not one time does it occur to her that I do for her and take care of her needs and make sure that she is safe. She only sees me as a nuisance, but yet someone that should be doing more. I can see how she doesn't really love, she just needs and takes.

Speaking of doctors--uugh!! I called yesterday to see if they could up her dosage on her anxiety medicine. I was hoping this might help with the attitude. I explained to them that I cannot add another medicine to the pill box or she won't take it. No changes. She said she understood. Well, they called today and had already called in two new medicines and LOWERED the dosage of her anxiety medicine. What the heck!! I called them back and told them to just not change anything. GRR! Now they have screwed it all up. They haven't called me back. I don't think they really listen when you tell them what is going on. Vent over!! Ha!

One last thing on my list of to do: Get an appointment with a counselor to get the ball rolling back to a good healthy mind. I do NOT want to be afraid of my mother any more!! I want to break free from the fear.

I broke free from mine almost a year ago. I am so glad I did. This time it is for good...no going back. I feel it inside myself that NEVER again will I have a d**n thing to do with her.

Jewel, let your mom's doc talk to whoever is arranging her meds these days ( not you) about medication changes.

butterfly: I really want to break free and I am working toward that. Even if breaking free means I just detach and don't let her bother me anymore. I hope to break free for good and be done with the madness, the pouting, demeaning, derogatory statements. Be thankful you were able to do it. I know it had to liberating.

baBalou: I am the one who arranges her meds. It's only me. AL facilities do not do their meds being they do not have nurses like a NH.

jewel, it isn't easy and takes time to undo what took years to create. I am sad for the situation but not sad that I no longer see or talk to her. Self-preservation!

I read something yesterday that made so much sense--It goes with your statement of it takes time to undo what took years to create. My reading from yesterday explained how we notice the narcissism much more clear after a parent begins the aging process. It becomes more apparent as the "mask" becomes more transparent. Friends (if they had friends) are gone, family members are starting to distant themselves finally from the madness and the aging narcissistic parent doesn't have anyone to "hide" behind. The truth starts to unveil and this causes a rise in their anger, frustration and many other things. They start losing the control that kept the mask on. This was such an eye opener for me. I have struggled with my mom being so mad at me all the time.-saying hurtful things that made me feel guilty. The guilt is what keeps her in control, it keeps the mask on. The dementia is just a small part of my mom right now and she is struggling herself with all the changes which also causes the anger and frustration.

What to do with all this information that I have? I am trying to process it and make decisions based on what I am learning new everyday. Something that I have always known and realize is that life is too short to be so miserable. My life is getting shorter with each passing day and I pray for less torture. I can feel it lifting and I have faith that will will dissipate. I hope sooner than later. Detaching is key and having no contact is a possibility. What will I do this weekend? I do not have the answer for that yet and will take it as it comes. If she doesn't talk to me? That is okay, that may be the answered prayer. Loving life is what I used to do and what I hope to do again. I never thought I would ever be "here" at this point of my life this soon, but I knew that my mom controlled me and breaking free is a very slow process.

Thank you for reading and giving hope where hope is due.

Today is Saturday and I have spent the day cleaning and not worrying about "her". I did call her and asked her about her eye. I told her I would come Sunday to bring her medicine from the pharmacy and asked if she needed anything else. Of course not. She was all sulky and brief. I did get a text from the beautician and she told me my mom came over Friday and asked her to do her hair again. My mom is sticking to what she told me, I wish I could stick to mine. Oh well, I am prepared to walk out tomorrow though if she gets started again. I will NOT let her get to me anymore. I will leave again and again.

One other thing I am really worrying about. I am so afraid my daughter is so much like my mom. I see so many characteristics of my mom passed on to my daughter. One example: When my mom is done with someone, whether it be friend or family, then she thinks you should be too. She thinks because she is my mother then I shouldn't talk to them anymore because she doesn't. I am seeing this in my daughter. Without going in to detail, she is doing me the same way. She thinks because she doesn't talk to someone anymore then I shouldn't either. She feels that I am going against her and hurting her. I wouldn't hurt her for anything. Something came up today and I almost didn't tell her about it, but I decided to and she got really mad at me over it. I feel like I am living with my mother all over again. The stress just keeps growing.

I feel like Job in the Bible sometimes. I am trying to keep my faith through all this. It is tough at times. When I go back and read my other posts--way back, I see how much more strong I was getting and now I feel weaker than I did in the beginning.

I am trying not to have any self pity, that is not what I am after, but I can see how someone can sit in self pity wondering why this is happening to them. Living life for yourself is very difficult because you can run the risk of loosing so many people in your life.--maybe that is not a bad thing in certain circumstances. Trying to figure it all out and wearing myself out!!!

Jeweltone, that is one of the sad realities...when children see adults behaving badly and not getting consequences for it, they imitate the behavior. How well can you model that forgiveness not severing of relationships is the answer, as far as humanly possible? Can you openly make peace with someone who you were on the outs with? Could you and your daughter go together to donate things to a homeless shelter and bring home the lesson that sometimes you give people what they need, regardless of their faults, just because we all have a duty of love?

Can you share, just for perspective, what she was upset with you for disclosing?Does she know that being mad is OK, but cutting people out of your life and judging them harshly, especially if you judge them more harshly than you would judge yourself, is not so OK? And you are MOM - you can't let her hold whatever it is over you to look down at you about forever...maybe the weakness you feel is guilt, and feeling unable to make course corrections for your daughter because your imperfections and inability to be everything to everyone in this situation is looming larger than life.

Being sandwich generation is hard enough without seeing the future trying to go the way of the past on top of it...

Jewel, I don't mean to be cynical but your daughter isn't only behaving like your mother. She's behaving like… oo crumbs, I don't know… ?three quarters of the population? "My enemy's friend…" It's the kind of thing I associate with my daughters' school friends and it used to drive me up the wall. It leads to an awful lot of bullying and victimisation, that horrible gang code of who you may and may not be friends with.

I agree it is more common, and more marked, among hem-hem the more narcissistically minded types. My MIL - gosh I've only just remembered this and now I'm laughing about it - fell out nuclear-style with her mother's family years ago. We were all forbidden to have any contact with them. Being separated from my husband by then, and very fond of of his great-aunt, I ignored the dictat - but none of my MIL's own children did. They missed weddings, christenings, even (I was really displeased about this) their great uncle's funeral. It was ridiculous. It was also not even up for discussion. Bonkers.

Be that as it may. I've forgotten how old your daughter is? - but the chances are it's a hangover from adolescence; and actually the maternal thing for you to do, if you think it's worth the trouble, is to correct this behaviour in her. It is a form of tribalism that fosters conflict and wants stamping out.

There can be exceptions. If the person your daughter's fallen out with has actually done something to deserve it, it's a bit different - you can at least allow yourself a cooling of relations. And I must admit there is one child in particular, although she must now be a grown woman in her late twenties, who I would gladly poke in the eye and I couldn't care less that my daughter has long ago forgiven her. It's a matter of being clear that should it ever come to sides, then of course you're on her side, but that in general sides have nothing to do with it and you ain't picking.

The principle of the thing - that "I'm not friends with so-and-so any more so you're not allowed to be either" refrain - is just not okay. You certainly shouldn't ever feel you have to go behind her back about anything - who's the best judge of what's right and wrong for you to do, you or her? Stick to your guns. I know how it feels "sharper than a serpent's tooth" to have your child accusing you, but you still need to tell her what's right.

And you can tell her from me that you get enough shoving around from your mother! It is NOT her turn!!!

I think you might be suffering from Nice Person Syndrome a bit, you know. Less good people swan around the place not worrying about it, sometimes thoroughly enjoying a good grievance and rolling up their sleeves when it comes to an argument. Gentle and patient people, like you, because you care about the people you love, feel everything they feel and therefore fear hurting them. Relax, you won't hurt them by telling them the occasional home truth. I know you'd put it nicely anyway.

Tell your daughter that what you need from her is support and kindness, not second-guessing of your way of doing things. If she wants you to cut someone off, she has to have a good, an objectively good, a just reason. Failing that, you'll carry on as you were.

And meanwhile, as far as her feelings go - Oh! - what it is to be so young and certain! Long may she continue to be sure of her own mind :)

vstefans: How ironic is it that you mentioned homeless shelter. Actually today, my daughter went to a soup kitchen to cook and to serve food to the homeless. We have also discussed doing this for Thanksgiving. Even though she carries so many of my qualities, giving and helping others, when it comes to her own relationships she burns bridges like my mom does. I am not saying that I want to burn a bridge between me and my mom for her torturing me with her control, but I am trying to show my children that family matters. Maybe I am showing them that it is ok to take what is not deserved. I am so confused right now. I am supposed to be in the best part of my life--besides when they were little. I am supposed to be enjoying these last few years with my children then off enjoying the rest of my life with my husband and my extended family. It is not working out as planned or how it was supposed to be. My mom has once more caused friction in this life of mine.

Sandwich generation was not on my agenda. The past three years has taken a toll on my family. We have all had to make decisions around my mom. I have been missing a huge part of my children's lives and I have not been here to take control of my own household. I am losing charge of what means the most to me.
I don't mean control and charge as my mom means control and charge. Our momentum as a family has been severely changed. What we knew as a family has been altered and it is causing havoc.

The duty to love is real, when we are torn down and tortured by the control from another is not ok. Sending mixed signals in this household is what is going on. I talk to her about how it is not ok to take what someone else dishes out, but yet I still do--I am taking it from my mom. She continues to hurt me and I keep going back for more. What a web we weave.

CM: That is a perfect way to put it. I am very proud that my daughter has the "guts" to move on and be like, oh well! I have tried to teach her not to take crap from people like I have. She knows I try to be the peace maker and I despise confrontation. I like everyone to like each other and be ok with things. I see the perfect world as you liking me for who I am and vice versa. It was the same way when my mother fell out with her dad's side of the family--because her mother did, and then in turn I am not allowed to talk to them either. STUPIDITY is what that is. Maybe that side of the family knows who is causing the trouble, ya think? It is all silly in my mind. Do I get upset with people and don't want to talk to them? ABSOLUTELY. My inlaws treat us as though we are outsiders. We are the last ones to know anything and then they get mad because we can't attend--go figure. I get so mad at them, but guess what? When my MIL was sick last Christmas, who was there cooking dinner and getting everything ready? You guessed it, me! I ddin't mind. I put all the other things out of my mind and went on. I have to say though, she does treat me to my face better than my own mother. My mother even thinks because my dad hurt her that we aren't supposed to have anything to do with him either. Drama, drama. I am sick of the drama. My life was so calm up until about 5 years ago when my mom started becoming ill. The last three years have been a true H*ll on earth. Back to my daughter. She is 23 and this is about an ex-boyfriend. They went their separate ways and he reached out to me on FB. She became very mad about this because she thinks when you are done you're done and that means family too. I didn't see it as a threat as she did, but I am trying to respect her feelings as well. The last boyfriend she had hurt her really bad, they were talking about getting married and all of a sudden he is cheating on her--I found out and boy did I let him have it. He lied to my face about it, blah blah. Now, if that boyfriend speaks to me then I will have something to say about it. I did use that as an example to her, but she didn't see that it was any different. She has been hurt really bad and is having a hard time getting over it. There could be something she is not disclosing to me about this ex. Who knows. I try not to get in the middle unless she asks me for my opinion. She became mad at me because she thinks I am taking his side, and I am not. I like to see both sides, but of course, no matter what she is my daughter and her side is what I will choose.

Hopefully, her being young, she will see as she matures that all this is silly. Time will heal her pain. She is a very wise young lady, smart, and takes leaps of faith that I would have never taken.

Thank you for helping me see that the world is not as perfect as I would like it to be. If she brings this up again, I will sit her down and talk to her. She is a pretty good listener. Right now she is at college and it was just a phone conversation. She takes in consideration what I say to her, hopefully it will sink in and she can get over all this anger and confusion about how relationships are supposed to be.