Is it normal she's so negative?

Are we getting too cynical, Looloo?!

I got that wince-making "it's all about giving back" treacle from a florist today - rare outing with mother, getting her hair done and she wanted to buy a gift for my SIL who's looking after her (gulp) next week. Not wanting to spoil the moment, but couldn't help myself pointing out that my mother packed us all off to boarding school from age 8 and if I were giving back I'd have turfed her to residential care six years ago. So no, it is not about giving back, it's about doing your best. Grump. The flowers are pretty though! - she chose a nice arrangement, minimal input from me.

True, CM, it is about doing our best. A few minutes ago, I got an email notification that my brother stopped by to visit her today. I'm glad that he can at least do this, since it's something that makes me ill to even think about doing myself anymore.

Looloo, your mom didn't teach you to be rude and neither did my mom. They knew better to raise us to be rude, they may need us one day. We were conditioned to be "nice" to them at any cost. I see myself in you when it comes to wanting validation that we are doing a good job for them. They will never acknowledge what we need from them--good girl, I am so proud of you. The only validation my mom wants is me telling her what a wonderful mother she is/was. NOT!!! I will not validate that to her either anymore. I read something about how to deal with the chronic complainer--this came after having Thanksgiving dinner with her at her AL the other day. All she did was complain the entire time we were there with her. My husband said, "well, it seems your mom is back to herself, she complained the whole time" Ha Ha! It is so true. Now that she is back to herself for the most part she complains even more. Anyway, after reading this article on why people complain, it made me realize that my mom doesn't see herself as a negative person. She is just responding appropriately to the negative world she lives in. Sounds crazy, but this is how they see things. They see the world around them as negative and terrible and they have to live in it. The world is not perfect as they see themselves. I cannot imaging how terrible it must be living in a mind like that. I do not want to validate her feelings anymore about how bad things are for her. I do not see the world as she does and I am so thankful for that. It was great of your brother to stop by and see your mom. I too wish I had someone other than me to fill in from time to time.

I spoke with my mom today about going to her sister's house tomorrow for dinner. She does not want to go and I am absolutely fine with that. A peaceful dinner without the complaining monster. I was willing to do it for Him, but I am thankful to Him for keeping her home so I can enjoy the day. While on the phone with her she proceeded to tell me why she couldn't go...different reasons kept coming out of her mouth. I then said, "let me know if you change your mind" oh boy here it came, "change my mind?!!" How am I supposed to change my mind. I have told you I can't go and you keep asking... so, then I said, "ok, mom, I won't ask anymore--this was in a kind voice. She then said, "Fine!! Do what you want"---then hung up the phone. Ha Ha! I stood for a minute and looked at the phone and then all I could do was laugh. I laughed and thought, she contradicts herself all the time. Didn't want me to ask, but yet gets mad when I quit asking. Whew, no wonder I feel like I have lost my mind sometimes.

CM-Doing the right thing sometimes is hard. If I gave back two fold, my mother would be much more miserable than she is now. She thinks I am hateful to her now, but she really has no idea what it could really be like. We are the ones that have to look back on this one day. I do not want ghost of Christmas past visiting me. Sometimes I think that is what is happening to our mothers. Maybe the skeletons are just too much for them to bare.

Have a great weekend!!!

It is Sunday... I called mom this morning and she sounded like she had been crying. I didn't ask, but I did ask if she felt ok. She said "no, my nose is stopped up" so I asked her if she felt like me coming over. With an answered prayer, she said, "no". I told her I hoped she got to feeling better...with no response, she just hung up the phone. Wonder how she would react if I just hung up with no response to her? I went to her sister's house yesterday with family to eat Thanksgiving dinner. I am sure mom is pouting because she chose not to go and we chose to go. Anyway, I did not have to go see her. I was able to take advantage of the time and put some Christmas decorations outside. I do realize at some point this week I will have to face her with all the questions about dinner at her sister's. She will quiz me over and over. "Bet they didn't even miss me did they?" "Who asked about me" "What did they say"? on and on. No answer will be good enough. Listen to me, Ha! Already dreading another week. Stop it! I tell myself, just Stop!

Aside from a few emotional hiccups, the holiday weekend was the most calm and relaxing I've ever had. But then, all previous holidays were never pleasant. They always involved putting on a fake cheerful persona, dealing with twisted family dynamics. I was happy for my mother that my brother visited, though-- and happy for myself that I didn't call or visit.
Thanksgiving five years ago was the last time I saw my father. He was very ill and died a week later. I've been reflecting on my parents' behaviors, and how I picked up so many of them without knowing it until very recently. Have any of you been on the website OutOfTheFog? I've been reading the forum posts, and my goodness, I can't believe how similar so many of the stories are.
Anyway, hopefully I haven't been ruminating too much. It seems like there are still so many moments of realization, it's almost too much sometimes.

Hello, back to work after a very much appreciated, REAL holiday weekend.
I was flooded this morning with a lot of "mom stuff", which I tried to do while at my "real" job.
Her appointment with her second neurologist was this morning, and I had spent some time over the last few weeks drafting a letter for him, to give him all the background. I faxed it over this morning. A few minutes before my boss was scheduled to come in, I got a phone call from the doctor, who wanted to conference me in to the appointment. I did not expect this, but didn't think it was a bad thing (it's just, I'm at work, I can't just switch gears, find some privacy, and so on--but I managed to duck into a conference room). I had to ask him to take me off of the speaker phone so that my mother wouldn't hear my comments. Anyway, I filled him in as best I could, and got to hear my mother a little bit. She only went to the appointment because she had no idea what it was for, which was good. He asked her a few questions, which she was basically unable to answer, but she's never said "I don't know" in her entire life, so I listened to her fudging her answers.
I'm not sure if she comprehended that I was on the call, or that it was ME, her daughter, speaking. She didn't say hello or anything -- and neither did I for that matter. It was strictly business.
I appreciated the doctor being as thorough as he could be, although I had answered a few of his questions already in my letter, so it seemed that he hadn't read it very carefully. Ehh, well, everyone's busy. Guess what? The world does NOT revolve around my mother, except in her own mind.

As with mine....The world is a negative place to live because it doesn't see "her" as important as she thinks she is. Actually I wonder if she really thinks that she is that important or if she just thinks we are supposed to thinks she is...I don't know. Now, I am confused. Ha! The reason I say this, while we were there to visit and have dinner with her all she kept talking about was the other residents. She would say things like--(usually unreal names of course), Jane is a social-lite, Sue is everyones favorite, Kathy gets all the attention. Frances is uppity uppity. Get the idea? She always sees everyone else as the "better" people. But is very sarcastic as she says it. She doesn't say it like poor me, it is with a smarta$$ attitude. Like--look at them, who do they think they are? umph!! Jealous is the one word I can think of. She is so "green" with jealousy she can't stand to be around anyone.

I had thought about calling her and asking her how she feels, but I have come to the conclusion she is just pouting. So, therefore, I am going to enjoy my night and let her sulk.

Enjoy your night too!

Hi everyone, how has your week been? Good, I hope! It's officially Holiday Season. I like this time of year, even though the awkward/unpleasant family stuff rears its head every time.
My mother's neurologist is a very helpful man. Since I had to get off the phone during her exam on Monday, I called back and asked to schedule a 5 minute call with him to get an update. He called me around 7:00 p.m. on Tuesday, and spent probably 10-15 minutes explaining how everything went. I filled in a few gaps too for him.
I had one moment of real smug satisfaction (with a tinge of guilt, of course). He related something my mother asked him, which, if he knew her as long as I have, he would have realized that it was a setup for her idea of a clever joke. He answered her question, and she delivered her punchline. I would never describe my mother as witty or clever -- sarcastic? Yes. But a good sense of humor is something she's never had. So, her "joke" only served to confirm his suspicions that her "thought processes are very confused," as he told me.
I had a reflex reaction to explain immediately what my mother meant. I felt badly for her, that she was misunderstood, that her joke fell flat, and that she only made her case worse for herself. BUT, the doctor had been so generous with his time already, and I decided that it wasn't particularly useful to harp on this one incident, so I didn't say anything. And THEN, I remembered all the times when I felt compelled to joke around in order to lighten up the mood in our family, and my mother would either roll her eyes, or look through me like I was invisible, or ignore me as if she couldn't hear me. At that moment, the smugness set in ;).
Hey, I'm no saint...

Hello everyone: want to respond to Loo and Jeweltone. Thanks so much for your entries which helped me understand more my visit with Mom this afternoon. After taking my work time and lunch time to deliver some cranberry supplement I bought for her that she hinted she needed for Mom's latest UTI, I arrived just at the moment she had a visitor, another 90 yr old, new friend of hers. The whole time, my mother treated me like dog sh*t, sarcastically putting me down in front of the apartment maintenance person, her new friend, and everyone she met in the hallway. She had everyone all brainwashed to what a horrible daughter I am, I have a big mouth, I don't stop talking, and all kinds of other other allusions. I was horrified and filled with disgust at her behavior. Just a few days ago we had a nice Thanksgiving: well, with me going yes, uh-huh, how nice while she goes on and on about nothing. "Well, I think we are getting along better," she declared.
God, she is SO looney!!!k But since no one knows her, and she is great at looking charming and being phoney, that everyone thinks she is "special".

While her friend told he her life story, totally unprompted and unaware of my queen mother fuming for lack of attention, I finally said, "I didn't have lunch, I am faint from hunger, I need to go back home to get back to work. Why don't you have a nice visit with my mother." They were both totally unaware of what's going on. Her friend went on and on about herself, while my mother inserted put downs about me and sat trying to get her friend to face and talk to HER.

I stood up from the couch, "I am sorry but I must go. I need to get some food now."
Mom jumped up and had this mean swaying motion as she walked to her refrigerator. "Well, I am sure it's not good enough for you, but you can have this."
She handed me some leftovers from a salad bar. It wasn't until after I ate it that I realized I probably consumed her germs: she has a UTI infection! Oh damn!
I was so hungry I ate it but it was only barely a handful of food.
This is in contrast to me making her a turkey with several sides, and dessert, all from scratch. I didn't even want to eat there. I should have just gave her the supplement, got the cash I spent and left. UGH, well next time.

I go away from her place, cursing and saying, "I HATE HER!" over and over. It's so disturbing. I am NOT like this as a person. She is utterly toxic to me. There's no way to win in this situation. Only glad she can still live on her own. But her behavior drives me to apathy and hatred. It's awful! Even my seeing a counselor doesn't make this scene from repeating over and over. I often wish I would never see her again.

I am grateful that I had a wonderful visit in Maine with my friends. I can think back to that and know who I truly am, and that I can be myself with them. With Mom I am in front of a machine gun. Why do I still oversee that she is Ok while I wish she would go to the moon and never come back?

Wonderful to hear that things have gotten much better. A few other notes: 1) Like everyone has said, maintain the boundaries you just established. 2) Yes, this is part of the natural progression of dementia. It does not reflect any buried feelings or subdued parts of her personality. As her brain changes, her body will become less apt at responding to stimuli and understanding it as positive or negative and what problems are causing her discomfort. She may have a hard time realizing that you brushing her hair is causing her comfort, not the pain in her foot (if she has that.) 3) Don't burn yourself out; spend time with friends and having time to yourself in your busy life. Take breaks when you find yourself running out of steam. Reach out to someone you know loves you; it's okay to ask for love and attention. 4) Know that your efforts do matter. Your mother is very vulnerable and has lost things we take for granted (independence especially)--in some ways, she does need to be treated like a child with high boundaries/rules as well as high expectations, but visiting her also preserves her adulthood and her identity as a valuable, complex person.

Thanks for sharing. I really admire that you set rules and that you are using those to help you and your mom have a good experience.

Judda: I know exactly how you feel...I really do. I leave my mom's sometimes and wonder why I got her as a mother. My mom has done the same thing about drinks. They have a soda fountain in the dining area and we can get a fountain drink while we visit. I always look forward to getting one when I go. Twice she has made comments about me not getting something to drink from her fridge.--like it isn't good enough. smh! Once, before I left, I did take a drink from her fridge and she said, "there was one already opened in there, why didn't you take that one? I guess you don't want to drink after me"---really mom? Gosh! If I don't take a drink it's the wrong thing and if I take a drink it's the wrong one. Speaking of Thanksgiving, when we went for dinner with her at the AL she introduced each of us to one of the new girls. When she got to my husband, she said "oh, and that is my sorry son-in-law" and laughed. Well, I didn't think it was too funny. He laughed with her and didn't let her know it bothered him. My mom wouldn't have said it before, but she did feel that way, now she says what she really thinks. I wish I had the nerve to say, "yea, and that is his sorry mother-in-law" Ha ha!! Can I send my mom to the moon with your mom? Not having to go this past weekend was nice, but here comes another weekend. I am trying not to dread it and I hope she doesn't want me to come this Sunday either. I really could care less if I ever go back. It is so nice NOT to be around her. I called her yesterday and she didn't say two words, so I told her I was going to get off the phone and once again she just hung up. She has decided not to use the word bye anymore. Click!

Just remember the boundaries you have set for yourself and know how important you are and surround yourself with those who make you feel good about yourself. Positive energy ONLY!!! I realize we cannot be happy all the time, but we don't have to be miserable for them. One day, hopefully soon, we will reap the benefits of being the "good daughter". Even though they will never acknowledge it, we know it. Losing ourselves through this process is a NO NO. We MUST keep true to who we really are.

Jeweltone and Loo, our mothers came out of the same moldy mould!
I used to love my Mom so much. Even though she's always had emotional mental issues and was verbally and physically abuse in my youth, she and I had a working mother-daughter relationship where we were like best friends. I think that is what hurts the most. That person is already dead.

My mother and I were never very close--ever since I was about 7, when she read my journal. I had read Harriet the Spy and loved it, so I was emulating Harriet from the book and kept a journal, where I think I just vented and wrote mean things about people. Anyway, she snooped, read the journal, and saw that I had described her as "fat". I swear, she never forgave me for that! She would bring it up over the years (the last time she mentioned it was a few months after my father died, which was almost 5 years ago). I felt guilty and awful my entire childhood for that. It didn't dawn on me until I was an adult that she violated my privacy, and hey, was writing that really so unforgivable? I guess so.
We were definitely enmeshed though. We would spend a lot of time together, shopping, going to museums--every time I confided in her I regretted it, but continued to do so until I was probably 30 years old. She was always disappointed in me and angry, she embarassed me with her obliviousness and know it all attitude. As I got more "adult" and independent, she got bitchier, and would make snide comments and insults when I visited. She made it impossible to blend my husband's family at holidays (no one could stand her rudeness and condescension). When she and my father moved away, she didn't adjust, even though it was she who wanted to move there. When my father died, she got even worse, felt very sorry for herself, and then her dementia followed.
We were never on any kind of trajectory of forgiveness and understanding, which is sad. Whenever I have to deal with her, it's always irritating, frustrating, confusing, and it messes with my head.

I also used to write things down. I was about 9 and wrote I hate my mother on a piece of paper and through it away. My mom too, snooped all the time. The paper was crinkled up in the trash and she found it. I feel really bad, but I blamed it on the neighbor. She had just been over and I told my mom she was mad at her mother. She told me it looked like my writing, but I think she kind of bought it. I have not been close to my mom either. Even though it appeared that we were close because I made such an effort to make it good with her. We went shopping, out to eat, and so forth up until she became too ill to go out--4 years ago. Now, I feel like I am living like I did when I was living at home as a young child and a young adult. She is always mad a me or pouting at me for something. When I was a teenager she worked an hour away and it was near a mall. She asked me that morning-while I was still sleeping, if I would drive over later and go shopping after she got off work. I told her no, I didn't want to. (I was a teenager that loved sleep, an still do, but grant it she left home at 7 a.m.) After I got up that morning, I thought about me telling her no and knew right away I was going to be in big trouble later. I called her at her work and told her I would come over when she got off work. She replied, "no, just forget it"...I knew then I was in more trouble than I thought. I begged her to let me come over (looking back, how stupid) She rudely told me to stop calling her at work and she would see me at home and I better be there when she got home. She yelled and threw her little fit after she got home at me because I didn't want to come over. Why didn't she just allow me to come? I now realize she LIKES being mad. She was and is never the one to give in. She stays mad and likes to throw a fit. I made sure the house was spotless when she got home, but it didn't matter. What mattered to her was that I said, no. You don't say no to her. I beginning to think maybe we all are stuck in a Stockholm syndrome...who knows why we keep going back for more.

When it comes to holidays, it is sad that our mothers couldn't get together with all the family. My mom can't stand anyone so she never wanted to be around my husbands family. She thinks they are uppity to do people. They are well known in the community but she sees that as a threat. They may be better than her. Crazy!! Just Crazy!! I have always wanted to have Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner at my house and invite everyone from my family to his family...but NO, as long as she is living, I will not be able to do that. A couple years ago when she was really bad ill, I didn't fix dinner thinking she may come over and of course she wouldn't, so I had some friends over for Christmas dinner and it was so nice.

I want you to know that I feel like I am reading about my own mom and our relationship when I read all your posts. My mom apologized one time to me and that is when the dementia first started and she thought she was dying...she sat me down and told me she was sorry for the way she treated me. I thought it was sincere and heartfelt. Now, I know it was only because she was worried about her own soul at that very moment. She is back to her old self and no apologies for her.

Wow, Jeweltone. Your mother and mine were tyrannical and masters at controlling us. Even as adults we still are haunted by guilt, fear, and confusion every single time we do anything with them, even a phone call or email. This is emotional abuse and our challenge is to find a place inside ourselves where we are SAFE, loved, peaceful, and can open up to others without fear. They did a lot of damage to us.
I am only seeing it all now. We must unlearn all the harmful patterns they taught us ; all those things that hurt us that we never questioned as children. They have been mentally ill all our lives: even though our mothers did other remarkable, or normal looking things.

Now we have to keep finding our own boundaries, dodge the abusive one-sided conversations or monologues, not be tempted to retaliate, be defensive, and often it always feels like a no-win situation, no matter what I do say, don't say, go or don't go, no matter what I do. This alone really burns me out an makes me rage with dispair. If this wasn't enough my need to grieve, love, feel compassion, and so on are at another end of the spectrum of the reality of dealing with her.

I keep trying and hoping it won't be so bad. At best, I can just barely tolerate her. Some moments are almost pleasant but any true closeness is out of the question .She'll set me up for her next target practice. I don't think she is even vaguely aware of what she says, what she is doing, and how she is effecting me. Same with your Mom.

Both mothers have never introspected on their OWN behaviors nor taken responsibility for their bullying, and abusive behaviors. My mother has never owned up to her cheating on my Dad all through their marriage, nor for beating on us. I still see her through my childhood eyes at times: the scary red face, the shouting, taunting, and so on. She could have been arrested for what she did to my sister. I don't know how we didn't have concussions or more bruises.

I try over and over again to smile, be brave, ask God for the right attitude, meditate, and do whatever I can to take care of myself when I am not in her presence. It's the right thing to do to be within reach to help her but it's the right thing to do to set time limits and use language that constantly reminds her that I have needs that are as important as hers. I don't care anymore how she reacts to that.

Judda: Sorry is not enough for what you have been through. My mom too put her hands on me many times. I think I told the story of how she hit me after I did something she told me to do. After I did what she told me to do, she realized it embarrassed her and she smacked my mouth--I was wearing braces and it cut the inside of my lip really bad. My lip turned blue outside and swelled. She was so afraid of what my dad would do, she had to manipulate me one more time by telling me that my dad would hurt her if he saw it. So, once again, I protected her by not spilling the beans. I stayed in my room a lot when he came home from work so he wouldn't see. He just thought I was a typical teenager hanging out in my room with my music. DUH! My poor dad thought I had never been spanked or anything. If he only knew. This is what bullies do..manipulate. Being an only child it was very scary being home alone with her not knowing when she would strike again. She used to pull my hair until knots would come on my head. I was probably 19 before she stopped putting her hands on me. then it became even more mental abuse. The looks she would give when she was mad were enough to stop me in my tracks. She could have shot daggers out of her eyes. I still see that in her. I do realize though that now she cannot hurt me like that, but I still live in that same fear and dread. You are so right about how mentally ill they have been all their life even through the normal nice things they did. My mom always looked like a movie star, well put together and was an excellent employee. No one would EVER know.

You are brave to step up and be caring for her even after her torture.

Judda, you are a bigger person than I am because there is no way I will be available for the woman who gave birth to me when the time comes.

Gee, I thought I was the only one! When I was around 9 or 10 I was mad at her for something and wrote a letter to a friend about how horrible my mother was. Almost immediately I felt guilty (I feel like I have felt guilty my whole life) and tore the several pages of the letter into hundreds of teeny tiny pieces, about the size of a pencil eraser, and scattered them in he bottom of a trash can. When I got home from school the following day, she had the pages of the letter taped together on display on the dining table for my guilt-stricken viewing pleasure. It must have taken her every minute of the day to painstakingly piece and scotch tape all that together! My only defense was, well, at least I didn't mail it! She used to tell me that other people were watching me at school and would report back to her everything I did. No wonder I turned out to have trust issues. She also would whip me until I had whelts and blood blisters on the backs of my legs and once hit me in the face with a cooking pot. The next day she asked me where I got the bruise. So I guess she's had memory problems for a long long time. The sad thing is that as a child, you think the problem is you. If you could just be good enough, pretty enough or smart enough, these things wouldn't happen. It took me several decades to figure out she was the problem, not me. Despite all those feelings, I still offered for her to stay at my home, because it was the right thing to do. She has now gotten pissed off and moved out on me not once, but twice (yes, I took her back after the first time; the second time I bought an expensive travel trailer for her to live in on our property, thinking close enough for me to keep an eye on her but giving us both privacy and her independence - didn't work as she wanted me over there visiting all day every day, and now I'm stuck with the trailer I can't use). Nothing I've ever done has been enough for her and I have now realized that nothing ever will. I have no positive emotion left for her any more as she has left me drained, physically, financially and emotionally. She, however, carries on as if none of her tirades ever happened and wonders why I am not the endlessly loving and forgiving daughter I used to be.

Cricket, I moved to another state last year to help the one who gave birth to me when she had surgery. In spite of 56 years of physical & verbal abuse I thought it was the "right" thing to do. It was not long before she started with the same old crap...belittling, criticizing, bad-mouthing me to the "family" and even outright lies. I finally asked her could she not see what kind of person it was standing before her and what possible good was it to throw things up in my face that happened when I was a 16, 40 years ago? She could not answer me & things only got worse. This woman allowed an uncle come into my bedroom when I was a teenager, he tried to molest me & I screamed at him to get out. She never said a word to him about it. That story is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. I'm not going to get started.

Wow--I have been catching up on everyone's posts. I have been able to identify with so many of your comments about a true lack of empathy, and a meanness from my mother that is so painful to deal with. Lifelong. I am 62, and still fear her mouth. I am an educator, and see so many abusive parents, but I also see so many loving, reassuring, kind parents. My father loved me. I am sure of that. I just knew it. My mother has difficulty expressing love, but sometimes she is so nice--I almost wish she was not nice at times, because I let up on my guard and then she comes out with hurtful and accusatory statements. This is not new--it has always been this way, I can never relax around my mother--I must stay on guard. How sad. BUT I did NOT have the physical abuse that many of you have just described. That would be so awful -- to have that additional fear from childhood that she could truly harm you. Oh--I am so sorry for each of you who had this. You didn't deserve it; you didn't ask for it; you were innocent children. You may have written something nasty about your mothers--not unusual--but their reactions were. I cannot even imagine how horrific that would have been.
So... dealing with strictly emotional abuse, I am still suffering, but trying to be the best and kindest person I can. My husband is the most wonderful man--without him, well, it is scary because he grounds me. Just like you all, she is ever-present in my head, messing with my mind, torturing me so that I rarely relax. I see her essentially every day, usually more than once because she lives so close, and she is in my head hammering away relentlessly. I try to shut out her voice, but it stays. But when I get a chance to be with friends for a while, and laugh and have some fun, I am a different person. I hope retirment doens't do me in. I hope I am in charge of my life, and don't give in to her every hint of a wish. Maybe someday we could all meet somewhere and have a mini-vacation support group combo. Wouldn't that be something!
Well for now, I am grateful to each of you for sharing your stories. You are helping others, and I hope, little by little, yourselves. I get strength from all of you.

Njny, your post just brought tears to my eyes. You know, now kids would just say, why didn't you just tell someone. I did everything I could so people didn't know what my mother did. I remember telling another kid that I fell out of a tree to explain some bruises I had gotten, because you knew in your heart that if she could do that to you when you were trying to be good, what on earth would happen to you when she found out you had told someone outside of the family. You also didn't want people knowing what an evil kid you were to cause your mother to do these things. Wonder what was in the water back then that caused such behaviors in all our mothers? Of course, she still thinks it's my fault every time she acts out now. Absolutely no introspection or self awareness whatsoever.

Cricket--I am so sorry. You know, nowadays, when we see bruises or hear anything about physical violence, we are required to report it. The authorities don't always fix the problem, but it helps when parents know they are being watched. The child protective services visit and then follow up, even if they don't do much more than that. I know some kids, like you, are scared to death to tell, and it is so upsetting. Your story grabbed my heart. Those memories are real today, I am sure. Take care of yourself--I care!

There is so much I want to say that I cannot find all the words. I can say do not give up on the hope that one day we will all be rewarded for the torture we were put through. This is not just past tense but also in the present and I am afraid for the future.

It was another torturous visit with my mom Sunday. I took some things from my grandmother's for my mom and she lost it. First, she cried and said it made her sad, then she got angry at me for not getting something else that she wanted. First off, I didn't know she wanted it..Oh yea, I am supposed to know that right? Ha! After an hour of listening to her put me down I tried to change the subject She then said, "When you were born I was so happy. I looked at you and was so happy. Looking back, while looking at you I never dreamed this many years later that you would put me in a place like this".... Yes, people, she said it. She WAS happy with me, but now she is just disappointed. She surely knows what to say. I still didn't make one comment. It was brought to my attention by a friend that just maybe some things my mom says doesn't deserve a comment. I have taken that to heart and using it wisely. We sat in awkward silence for about 30 min to an hour and I was ready to leave. I took a small tree and she didn't want it but finally she decided she would keep it. We went for a walk and she brought up my dad---this is why I didn't want to tell her about him...she asked "how do the kids like having their papaw living next door" I changed the subject and she didn't like it, but I didn't want to talk about it. She started complaining about the staff again too. They either don't come in her room enough or they come too much. I guess I should have moved her in to the Three Bears house, maybe it could have been "just right". Eventually after being around such negativity, one can't be anything but negative. When I leave her I feel like I could crawl under a rock. Judda , I thought about you when I left... I wished I never had to go back. I want to scream out loud when I get in the car. I also always seem to come home and reflect on our visit. I really wish I didn't do that. It puts me deeper under that rock.

One other thing she said yesterday that made me think she probably is right, She said, "you will never know what it is like to lose your mother". She might be on to something. If she lives 20 or 30 more years, I won't be able to stand it that long. Realize my mom is only 69 so it is very possible.

There is so much more to yesterday's story, but I will leave it at that for now. My soul is crushed as usual but I also realize that I have been rejected by her for many years and that is not going to change.

Classic manipulative narcissistic mother - they will say or do anything and everything to try to pull the attention toward them and to attempt to make you feel guilty. Our mom always threw out the laments about all she did for us when we were kids and how she gave her life to us on a silver platter. OK (seriously? that's not how I remember it), that still does not give a person the right to take over someone else's life and emotionally manipulate them. The moment we tried to set a boundary was usually when we got all this wailing and gnashing of teeth. Don't let her get to you. Sounds like you are on the right track with how you are handling these situations.

Thank you Cricket... I have set boundaries and it has been very tough. I NEVER stood up to my mom or told her no. She has even told me I am not the same person. I am the same person, but not to her. You are right, when I started boundaries she became so much worse. She was already mean and hateful but I just took it. Now she is meaner and I take it, but only to a certain point now. When my mom was well, she would call out of the blue and tell me she was coming over for the day and wanted to cookout, etc. Even if I had made other plans for the day with my family, all bets were off. The plans changed and we had her over for the day and entertained her. No matter what she said, we took it, not matter what mood she was in we morphed. I DO NOT do that for her anymore and she sees the change. But the sad part is, she was the only one I ever did that for. Pulling away from something you have been taught all your life is very difficult. I have been trained to bow down to her and do what she wants when she wants it. Now that I am learning to say no and put my family first, she is not liking it one bit. She is always finding something I do wrong.--that really isn't anything new. I think I just see it more now that I am able to say no. The only no I usually use is when she wants to live with me or move from the AL. I do tell her no then. She said to me Sunday--"you would rather me stay here and be miserable than live by myself" I told her I don't want her to be miserable or be alone and I don't know how to fix it. Fixing it is something she looks for in me. She thinks I can fix her happiness and I CANNOT! Believe me, I have tried numerous times until I finally realized that I can't. No matter where she lived, she said "I hate it here, I am miserable here" She moved three times in 2 years. I realized that it is not the place she is living, it is the soul she lives with.

My mom too thinks she gave me life on a silver platter. If she considers only the "things" that she bought me and the stuff I owned--that they bought me, then yes, I was handed a silver platter. But the emotional and physical abuse that came with all the stuff, takes away the silver and leaves me with a tarnished platter. I have stated before that I will not deny I was very fortunate growing up. I had just about anything I could ever ask for except the most important thing and that was the acceptance from my mom. My dad on the other hand loves me no matter what. Between him and his mom(my grandmother), I learned what love was really about. I am so thankful for them in my life showing me. My dad always thought my mom did the same thing because he never knew about what all happend when he was gone to work. He didn't even know I had a spanking until 3 years ago. He always told people I never got a spanking (because he never did) and I finally was tired of hearing it and told him the truth. He cried. He was so sorry that he didn't see what she was doing. He knew she manipulated me through guilt, but had no idea she was putting her hands on me.--more than just spanking. I am not asking for pity by no means, but it does help me to finally put it out there. I have kept these secrets for way too long. If she weren't ill, I probably would still be holding them inside--you know the rule, don't spill the beans on the abuser. When my parents divorced I was 20. My dad asked me to move with him and I wouldn't--I was too afraid of what she would say. Not realizing since I stayed and he wasn't there she said a whole lot more. I wish so many times I had moved with my dad and got away from her, but that is what an abuser does--they mainuplate you to believe in what they say.

I could go on and on. :-) Thanks for listening!!

Yeah, Jeweltone. When I started seeing a counselor, learned to set boundaries, say no, accept my own needs first, and to be more detached to protect myself, my mother said things like, "You've changed! What ever happened to my sweet little girl?" I thought a moment and than answered, "I grew up."

jewel, I find it helps to use the ride home to throw the negativity off, replaying things in my head. When I walk in my door, I'm reminded that my family shouldn't catch the fallout from my issues with my mom. Sadly, while we're learning how to set boundaries, our families catch a lot of rubbish they don't deserve. It may sound silly, but when I'm in the midst of a tough visit, I think that I'll soon be curled in bed, knitting, with a cup of tea and a goody. We have to get good at throwing it off because it won't get easier. My mom is now finding that there are things we simply can't make better - her health, her mobility. She hit me with every bit of guilt and manipulation yesterday because she is unable to attend a family party this week. The party site is not wheelchair accessible and she can't do stairs. She won't accept that no matter how much guilt she tries, I still can't get her up the stairs. Unfortunately, she's preferring to think that she's not wanted at the party as it's "just for the young people" (my 93 yo FIL will be there plus us geezers), than to realize that it's just that it's an access issue.

Jewel... I also know the hurt of the words said by a mother which are always 'there' (in your head). I work on this day-in and day-out, trying to brush it off, but it's really difficult. I never thought in the 'younger' days that trying to care and do the 'right' things for the mother you love so deeply, could wear you down. I think there's a lot of us here that understand. Thank goodness for this site! Keep the faith with me/us... You're a lovely person.

Linda22, that is so my mother. You know they only had the party in this particular venue so she couldn't come.... Ha Ha!!! My mom too thinks that everything anyone does is against her. I think this too comes from their rejection as a child. I have had my mom tell me stories of her mom and dad and how they were mean too, but she doesn't see herself anywhere near them. My mom was a middle child and she milks that for all it's worth. She truly has the middle child syndrome. I also think sometimes I feel guilty because I feel like my mother tells me I feel about her. She always says stuff like, "you don't care about me, you just put me here so you don't have to do anything for me", "your kids don't care about me, they just sit here when they come", "you should have left (my son) at home for the dinner, he was bored and he didn't want to be here". Shew!! Yes, this is the way it is all the time. She is right, we don't want to be there--only because of all the negativity, but she just don't get it. When I tell her, then once again, she plays the pity card.--woe is me, I am a bad person. She never stops to say, "oh, I don't mean for it to be that way." Guess what? She loves to complain, I think she is addicted to it.