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Why do you think mental health care can’t help you?
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OCD,
Just wondering where is your mother living now?
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Ocdtrauma70 Sep 2022
Thank you. For the past 15 years she has wandered from nice hotel to hotel, where she has negotiated for the best deals and gets free meals in the nicest places for about 50k a year. That would’ve cost a normal person $200,000. In the past three weeks she is in a temporary luxury condo that was offered to her by a rabbi in St. Louis. However she can only stay there until September 10. I’ve offered to buy her a house or a condo anywhere but she goes on and on about how she can’t live anywhere and how she wants to be in Europe and the surrounded by family. The problem is she has no family. She said she can’t do anything alone because of her anxiety. She has avoided settling anywhere for 30 years.
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OCD, if this is all true, it isn’t just your mother who needs a psychiatrist, genuinely. You can surely see that your mother has a mental illness, and that you cannot believe a word she says. She needs to be in a mental hospital where she can get professional help.

You are making yourself ill, genuinely. I don’t know what else occupies your mind in your ‘simple life’, but obsessing about your mother seems to be occupying a lot of your waking time. You need more than simple counseling, you need psychiatric care to stop you going down a really bad path. You cannot control this woman, and you need better control over yourself. Don’t mess about with this!
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Ocdtrauma70 Sep 2022
I do have an entrepreneurial business so I am quite busy with that. My husband is now talking with her and I listen to a book called “talking to crazy.” She went back to her trauma when she was growing up and her parents fought and she was scared. She was sad nobody invited her to a Rosh Hashanah dinner and she was alone. She keeps on with her mantra that she can’t do it alone and begs me to pull my energies from the loving times that we had (???) and be there for her. Truly, nobody else cares about her suffering. I wouldn’t want to completely be abandoned if I were her so my brain keeps trying to do something. She will need to leave her apt On September 10 and it’s every day going on and on about how she has no place to go and people in Italy have family…Again, she divorced my father and left me at 13. She has mental illness. I don’t think getting care can help me and I don’t think it can help her.
The difference is that my life is 80% awesome outside of her 20 percent pain and ocd. She truly has nothing. Of course my mindset is also better that I am happy with just seeing my son smile. My husband also wants for nothing.
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She needs a geriatric psychiatrist to see her WHERE SHE IS NOW.

Your mother is profoundly mentally ill and will not be helped by living with you. She will be miserable everywhere and anywhere because of her demons. You do not have the ability to help.
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Beatty Sep 2022
I hope OCD can take this important message on board.

Is there acceptance that Mother is mentally unwell? Or denial?
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I just found out from the religious doctor that she is in St. Louis at an upscale independent living place that ranges from $4300 for a one bedroom to $11,000 for a 2 bedroom. She told me that it was hell and she didn’t even have a toilet. She told us she got a deal for 2300, which I believe and I’m glad at least she manipulates other people so that she doesn’t spend all of our money! She lied and told us she was I. New Jersey. She’s been lying to me since I was young. Grrrr. So this kind man did help her get away from Europe where she said she was going to kill herself but now she says she hates being in this prison at this luxury residence and needs to go back to Europe. Then she’ll throw in that she needs hugs and love. It’s hard to know that your mother has lied to you her whole life to get what she wants but she must be really messed up.
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sp19690 Sep 2022
No matter where she is your mother will never be happy.
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OCD, your mother's feeling, drama and living arrangement are simply not within YOUR ability to control.

A person who threatens suicide if you won't accede to their unreasonable demands is being manipulative.

Please seek out mental health support for yourself.
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Ocdtrauma70 Sep 2022
She is now emailing my husband about 4x a day to come get her and continues on her mantra of "I can't be alone." She is basically a stranger to him. She is now upset that the doctor abandoned her because his wife was upset that he was calling her so much every day. She is not in a stable place. I do want someone to love her, I just do not have the ability to deal with her every day. It turns out she lied about where she was. She is actually in a luxury senior home but got a deal. That said, she says we don't understand that she can't hold on much longer and has no place to go. I feel sad for this shell of a woman who doesn't have any place to turn. That said, we'd be nice if she just was reasonable.
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The doctor part is just crazy. No legitimate doctor behaves this way. Refuse every call from this person. I fear for your health and well being if you can’t step away and separate yourself from this situation. Your mother will be fine, you I’m not so sure. Please care for you
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Ocdtrauma70 Sep 2022
I don’t think she will be fine. I will be okay as I’ve dealt with ocd for many decades and can still live with it. I just can’t have her near me even though sometimes I still just want to try but can’t risk it. My wealthy mother in law (who has been a mother) has never met my mother (mother didn’t come to wedding) entertained idea for have her stay with her for a while but said she couldn’t do that. We couldn’t allow that because mh mom is a snoop. The minute my 86 year old mother in law would leave the house, my mother would go through all of
her papers and her stuff. Can’t trust her. Yes, crazy that people still consider helping her but this is actually to help us. My husband tried to call her and she is finally willing to speak to him now but it won’t go anywhere. (Yes, I know insane that we are grateful she will let us try to help her.)
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You wrote "Thank you. I was grateful the doctor took some of the burden. He does believe he is saving her life and keeps telling me he is afraid she will kill herself as she described how she would kill herself to him. He is calling every family member as well - her brother etc. my stepmom even called her to help her move to Phoenix but she doesn’t want that either. No winning. She is truly in Hell ...."

A real MD is OBLIGATED to get someone with a plan for suicide into psychiatric care immediately. This person is either lying or incompetent.

You cannot save your mother. She needs mental health assistance and will only seek it when she finds she can't manipulate the rest of her "circus".
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BurntCaregiver Sep 2022
You're right, Barb. Someone here is lying. Unless the doctor is a personal friend of the mother's, he would just report to the police that she is suicidal and let them take it from there.
He would not be calling every family member either. In fact, he would not be calling any if he didn't have the mother's permission to.
The OP has mental problems and should make an appointment with a mental health provider.
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"She is truly in hell though. I don’t doubt that".

So what is it YOU need?

Help for how to stop the OCD ruminating thoughts?

Or do you believe you must still fix your Mother's housing problem?

If so, why?

Do you also believe you must fix your Mother's mental health problems?

If so, why?
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Ocdtrauma70 Sep 2022
Yes. She has no home. She does have about $125k in assets (she taught me to be a sleuth detective early on and I have access to her records). Emails every day to my husband still that I can’t not ask about (too hard for me). She needs to have a home but won’t let us buy her a home. Her Only solution is for us to take care of her. She tells how she is in prison each day - but she has said that before about living alone in certain hotels. I don’t doubt she is utterly miserable and doesn’t want to live.
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PS What Doctor would phone her every day?? That is whack! 4 Docs in my family. None of them would enable this way!! Your Mom has chosen to be miserable. Unless you enjoy the abuse...boundaries! One quick call a day or less.. On her to entertain herself if she won't be neighborly.. My Mom is anti social..mean...NPD...Borderline. Not on you. STOP the madness train!
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NOOOOOO! YOU do not deserve this!!! You cannot "break!" Save your Hubs & Son..if you feel too guilty thinking on yourself. Do Not read the emails. Does she live alone? She is 77? My Mom is 79, alone & miserable...but miserable her whole life. Terrible to my Dad who passed in January. Force yourself to limit the contact. I call every day, but I am going to cut convos shorter.. She is smart enough to know now that calling me repeatedly will get her nowhere. I actually tell her not to. But that I will call in evening. Tell her I am working... Do not be scared. GET STRONG! Boundaries. This is for your family & you. My Mom is NPD & Borderline. We must be who we are for our families & ourselves...work..friendships, etc. Just say "NO!!!" to allowing her to control you.
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Ocdtrauma70 Sep 2022
Thank you. The doctor finally abandoned her. I didn’t see that coming!! (Lol). I told her she needed to take his advice and support (he is a religious man who was trying to help her). I knew he wouldn’t stick around forever. Now she is further devastated and praying to die soon. She is in the temporary place he got her too, but says it is prison. She is truly miserable and has no home and no friends so I am not sure how to do anything. I don’t think she will be fine.
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You have just replied again, along the same lines. It all hangs together less and less. The ‘doctor’s actions don’t add up for a doctor. Doctors don’t ring all the family repeatedly. Doctors usually manage some meds that will help the over-stressed over-anxious person. Doctors refer suicide threats on to a specialist. There a liars lurking in here.

You are NOT in your mother’s shoes, quite literally. Stop thinking about what it might be like if you were. Remember that if you were, you would be more sensible. Sort out your own problems – you can’t sort out your ‘pretend’ mother.
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MargaretMcKen Jun 2023
9 months later - it turned out that this Doctor is a Rabbi, not a doctor of medicine. Margaret
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Your mom is very good at manipulating people around her, I am sure your Dad knows and so does everyone else, somehow you are the only one who is willing to stick around after all these years, very much like a battered wife except in this , mother and daughter relationship, when you were so young and faced such emotional disturbances, and yet you managed to handle it , got a husband and family and all on your own, she wasn’t there for you at all, basically mom is a imaginary figure, the things she said are mostly made up by herself so that she could get what she wants and for the past 30+ years you had to deal with it, and if you want to stick around there will be no shortage of imaginary things about herself such as no one cares, no family, no husband….etc just to gain your empathy, I am sure there were more audiences before but you are the only one who still has the tolerance, unfortunately. In a battered relationship, it is also something you accustomed to, habit is hard to quit even for your own good. Like any other bad addiction , it takes time and extreme effort to steer clear, your emotional attachment to her is not love , you are just reluctant to let go of the mother you are supposed to have.
She is a capable person, judging by the fact she can get so much from you financially, with that skills, she would be able to survive without you, it’s just that people can become lazy, why does she want to try it on someone else since you are always there for her.
If I were you, I would slowly but steadily steer away, for yourself and your family, you have to do it, kick the habit, her title is “mother”. But in terms of functionality?
A ungrateful parasite. I apologize if I have offended you.
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Ocdtrauma70 Sep 2022
Thank you. Not offended at all. On point, just hard as I wouldn’t want to be in her shoes.
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@Ocdtrauma70,

You could tell this doctor who calls your mother daily and keeps calling you because he can't believe you won't take her in, that you've only seen her ten times in the last 33 years. So really, this woman who happens to be your mother is all but a stranger to you.
Like a distant relation that you maybe see every few years or so at a family wedding or funeral.
If this doctor is so concerned for her, then he can take her to live with him. He can be her caregiver and provide for her financially.
Do not take another call from this doctor. Change your phone number if you have to. There's no reason why you have to talk to this person.
You say now that you've been fully funding her since you were 35 years old and you are now 52. You decided to be her enabler. If she was unwilling to give you an hour a week, she couldn't care less about you or your family. That and the fact that she's only seen you ten times in the last 35 years. She's a gasligting manipulator who uses drama and suicide threats to get what she needs and wants. People like your mother know how to skate through life while others clean up their messes, put out their fires, and support their lives. My mother is like this, but to a lesser degree.
Do yourself and your family a favor and no more support to your mother. Please schedule an appointment with your mental health care provider too.
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Ocdtrauma70 Sep 2022
Yes, on point with the doctor.
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OCDtrauma OP, perhaps you should think about your own problems, instead of Mother. Your mother is clearly unbalanced, irresponsible and unreasonable, and has been for years. Other people can see this, and have walked away because nothing helps. Why can’t you see it too?

Now your own problems: Like Beatty says, “You have CHOSEN to fund her lifestyle, and you are ALLOWING yourself to be manipulated”. So why are you doing this? You KNOW that nothing helps. What is YOUR problem in accepting that you can’t solve your mother’s problem for her?

Once again, like Beatty says, “Mother does not actually WANT to be independent. .. An assisted living or nursing home will suit her - she will get looked after”.

Perhaps your best bet is to wait until she really is desperate, and then offer support to go to a facility. Can you stop worrying until she reaches that point? Can you and your husband get whatever support it takes to set both of you free?
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Ocdtrauma70 Aug 2022
Thank you. I’m really trying to keep boundaries but none of this works. She has this doctor who she knew from 25 years ago who has called her every day for 3 months now to keep her alive. He keeps calling us and saying he’s never seen a situation where there is no family to take her in and asks us to help even though I tell him what I told everyone here. He seems to believe that I have a husband and her situation is worse. Either that or he is trying to find a solution so he can be done with it.
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Ocdtrauma, thanks for the replies. I'll bring to the top 😃

So to what DOES Mother want, her list of acceptable options goes like this;

1. family to take care of her
2. live near me (impossible)
3. live in Tel Aviv but it is too expensive
4. live in Switzerland but does not have citizenship
5. wants a husband to take of her

Let's call all those Plan As.

Now if NONE of those Plan A options are possible - she has to make a new list eg Plan Bs.

That's how reality works.

She seems unable to problem solve or be able to face reality.

By paying for her past & future accommodation this is providing a giant buffer between Mother & the real world.

I know this can stem from wanting to PROTECT someone... but when protection goes too far, it prevents independance. It can prevent TRUTH.

To me, Mother does not actually WANT to be independent. She wants someone to be look after her.

Honestly, an assisted living or nursing home will suit her - she will get looked after.

She may need either the right councillor to help her gain insight - or a legal 'push'.
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Why don’t you just block her? You’ve wasted to much time and energy ruminating about this women.

let her become a ward of the state. She would do the same to you
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You are 52, 15 years from full Social Security. Believe me, the time will fly by. You need to think of your security. If you and husband have the money to give her than if it makes u feel better, give it to her. I would say you are very well aware she is delusional and that you will never be able to meet her expectations. I like where a certain amount of money is placed in her account each month. You have no contact otherwise. No emails, no texts, no phone calls. Because, you get nowhere with her. She wants it her way and that is not possible. She stopped being your mother the day she walked away. You really can't help this woman. She wants something from you that you can't afford. It has to be "NO Mom I can not afford to give you what you ask of me. Its not my responsibility to support a lifestyle your used to. I have made offers and its never good enough. Those offers are now off the table. Your going to need to find your own way as you have done before"

My mantra: I am here to help people find a way, not be the way.

If she shows up to your door, tell her "sorry no room". Give her some money for a hotel room and food if u want. Tell her Social Services is in ? town and she can see them about finding her housing. If you Mom is capable of traveling all over the world, she is capable of talking to SS. Be aware too, the State can take over her care if she gets where she cannot care for herself and you do not have to be involved. You are letting a woman who felt no remorse in leaving her family to do her "own thing". She now has no right to go to the same family and ask for help and then tell them they need to fund a lifestyle she thinks she is entitled to. There has to be some mental illness here. You owe this woman nothing.

Me, I would give her a list of resouces in her area with phone #s and tell her to call them because the money will be stopping by this date? This woman is her own worst enemy and believe me, you cannot help her.
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PeaPods Jan 2023
I like your mantra. Thank you for sharing.
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Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

Fool me THIS many times?
Just shame.

Leave her to rot, she is not your responsibility.

Stop all interactions, and cut this toxic person out of your life.

One of the biggest mysteries of this forum is why the more neglected/abused a person was as a child, the more likely they'll continue to allow that abuse/neglect continue throughout their lives.

Cut. her. off. 100%. If she dies on the street she won't be the first, and she won't be the last. She'll be one of thousands.
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"She can’t be on the street and so we have to fund her".

Correction: you have CHOSEN to fund her lifestyle

You are allowing yourself to be manipulated.
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What steps are you taking now to stop giving her money and stopping your obsession of being a “good” daughter to her?
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Hopefully therapy is providing support & skills to cope with the intrusive OCD thoughts.

Your Mother sounds like she has been battling mental illness herself for a long long time. Do you agree?

As you said "I can't solve it".
This is true.

Are you paying her accommodation to avoid her becoming homeless?

I'm not sure what country she resides? Where I live, an elderly lady with mental health issues would be provided a Govt funded NH bed. It may be in a shared room, but be staffed, hot meals & activities provided. Certainly warmer & safer than being homeless. Is that option available for your Mother?
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Ocdtrauma70 Aug 2022
Thank you. My mom won’t even live in a nice condo we offer her in any state she chooses. No matter what we offer, she won’t take it. We don’t want her in a govt funded room, we want her in her own nice place - but we can’t even make that happen! She’s done everything she wanted on our funding and we are still offering her a home, but not near us.
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This is one strange post. The poster wants to buy her mother a home while she lives in a cramped space of some kind, and funding her for years.

The problem is not the mother it is the poster who needs some serious mental health help.

I hope that she gets the help she needs so that she can start living her life.
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Ocdtrauma70 Aug 2022
Thank you! Yes, I’m hearing everyone. I have a home (while small happens to be in San Francisco). I have adoring husband and son so the theory is that while we save, we don’t need much because we are happy with simple. Either that or I’ve been brainwashed to feel guilty about having anything!
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Many of us dream about living overseas and having home in N A . It is just a dream as in reality maintaining two properties is almost impossible unless somebody is super rich, considering cost of other things, maintenance, travelling, insurance, medical assistance etc.
So my dream of owning villa in Italy on Amalfi Coast, or my favourite South of France, I am EU member and my husband being Swiss we could easily live in France and close to Geneva, and qualify for medical etc.
That was our dream for retirement and living in warm climate for winters somewhere SA then Europe which we did and then disease happened and all of it became unrealistic.
There is life we envision and reality, reality which is harsh and expensive as medical needs increase.
Your mother lives with unrealistic expectations which you are supposed to meet.
You cannot, and you should not, as you need to create solid boundaries and stop obsessing. The best is to help yourself as you cannot possibly jeopardize your family and your health, think of yourself and your needs in 20 years.
She is a type, which I know very well who would never change, narcissistic, selfish, if manipulative they will use suicide. I hope I am wrong for your sake!
She as an adult who needs to take responsibility and it could be not the best solution, if you are willing to help offer one choice.
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Ocdtrauma70 Aug 2022
Thank you!
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First of all, you need to make an appointment with whatever mental health care provider you use because your OCD and obsession is out of control. If you are anything like how you write here, you need serious help.
If your mother can afford to live in hotels around the world for the last 40 years, she certainly doesn't need you who lives in a two-bedroom apartment with three other people to take her in or pay for her.
You've only seen her ten times since you were 19 years old and you are now 52. So this is not a person you care for or who cares for you. This woman is all but a stranger to you. Don't worry about her. If you want to talk to her when she calls, then you should. If she starts acting needy and giving a drama performance about killing herself, hang up on her. You don't owe her anything.
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Grandma1954 Aug 2022
amen
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If anything, stop funding her life. She could live another 20 years and happily drain you dry. Do not buy her a home. Do not fund any traveling. She will be mad when you say NO to any more money, but that’s on her. Let her act like the child she is.
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BurntCaregiver Aug 2022
Loopy,

The OP lives in with two other people in a two-bedroom apartment. So he/she/they is not funding anything.
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This totally unhinged person doesn’t deserve to be in your life. If you want to keep supporting her, have the funds autopaid into her account. I’m with the others who have said this - don’t give her your email address, change your phone number, refuse to talk or correspond with any person that she’s connected with, and pretend like she’s dead. Which she should be in your mind, at least. You’ve done as much as you could.
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Ocdtrauma70 Aug 2022
Thank you. Yes, I have the funds to support her modestly. Created an email just for her and my husband monitors so I don’t read. Not the best solution, but a step. She knows where I live and could show up any day so that is my biggest concern. I’m paying for peace.
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You can't fix her. You can only fix you.

Nothing you're doing for her is changing the course of her life. Some people just have rotten lives, and it's the hand they're dealt. They aren't strong enough to change their course themselves, so either they sponge off other people like your mom is doing, or they just exist. The only difference is your mom is existing just like she would, but on your dime.

You have to eventually come to the conclusion that you're a mere mortal like she is, and it isn't in your power to change her life or anyone else's. You chose to take her monkey on your back, and only you can make the decision to remove it. By venting constantly here or to others, you're doing the same thing she is -- trying to get others to take YOUR monkey on their backs.

I'd advise not relying on excuses like OCD and just do what you need to do to ensure YOUR happiness and survival -- eliminate the source of the obsession and cut her loose. Contact Adult Protective Services, change your phone number, move if you have to, and live YOUR life.
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Ocdtrauma70 Aug 2022
Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, I recognize that I could also be dumping on people and I am trying to change that. But I don’t make it their fault and they usually don’t have the history to absorb it. I’ve had enough here to finally get it and I want to make sure I do better to others. That is why I am trying to get help here. I won’t be on again. Once and done.
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There's another post where a mother had a brain tumor but her husband passed away. Only that OP walked away and the sister is now estranged because she is fully supporting Mom and mad at the sister who will no longer help. Here's the post.

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/struggles-supporting-an-abusive-mother-what-should-i-do-476775.htm

Anytime the brain is compromised or a person has a mental illness seems the person will probably suffer from Dementia. At 77, you Mom could likely have Dementia.

What country is she now living in? Is she a citizen of the US? If not, that causes problems with being able to get welfare and benefits like Medicaid. Maybe the first 12 yrs she was here would count as residency. Being married to your Dad for over 10 yrs may entitle her to SS and maybe Medicare. But she seems to fight you with every suggestion you make.

If she is in the US, I would call her County Adult Protection Agency explaining that she is a vulnerable adult. That all suggestions have fallen on deaf ears. That you can not continue to support her. They will investigate and if found Mom needs help take over her care. But if in a foreign country I have no idea what u can do...call the embassy?

You seem to be the compassionate one in the family but your beating your head against the wall and getting nowhere. Mom chose to divorce your Dad, leaving her children behind and living her own life. 40 years ago she was 37. Young enough to start over and plan a life without a husband and children. Find resources to help her and then walk away. Sadly she has made her bed and now she has to lie in it.
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Ocdtrauma70 Aug 2022
She did this 35 years ago and has been like this for her whole life so it is more narcissism and anxiety/depression. She doesn’t want the medicaid help - we’ve offered to buy her a nice condo in florida. She just doesn’t want to choose a life that she doesn’t see will be good for her. She will only accept if I let her come to me, take care of her, and then fund her travels overseas and help her from getting old. So, yes, I can’t do that! Thank you for your kindness.
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