My Dad is living in filth. Brother doesn't care. Anyone have any advice?

I think a person who no longer takes care of themselves is able to make their own decisions. I think she needs a phsyic workup. POA is only good for making decisions for ur Mom when she can't. You may need to get guardianship.

That is suppose to say "is not"
able to make decisions.

Where do I start?? I have no experience with APS so I can't comment on whether their "help" would be advisable. If you call them, will they "advise" you in this situation? Don't know. However, have you ever watched the "hoarding" shows on TV? It sounds from your description that your father can no longer or will no longer take care of himself (bathing) or his home/surroundings. If "there is dishes that never gets washed, bathroom floor slick with urine, toilet is beyond help, bathtub black with mold, bed sheets with poop on them where he didn't make it and instead of changing them he just sleeps in it. Spiders/webs all over the place. Garbage running over.", then it is just a matter of time before the house will be condemned. Bug/rat infestation will surely be soon, if not started already. Unfortunately, when you "force" a hoarder to take action, without addressing his mental issues, they will most likely return to their ways after you have cleaned up and left (as you have experienced).

That said, you almost have to have an "intervention" with Dad and brother and do it sooner than later. Do not take "no" for an answer from your brother who lives next door and does not work. LisaR1963 is correct: a POA is worthless if your Dad is deemed competent to make his own decisions. A POA is invoked only when Dad is deemed incompetent or unable to make his own decisions. Is it possible to have your in-laws watch your children for a few days and you and your husband make the trip to "intervene" with Dad/brother?

If he "barely has enough to pay his bills, sometimes not enough. He has started asking to borrow money from me and I do give it to him.", then assisted living is not an option because the majority of assisted living is private pay and it is EXTREMELY expensive in monthly rent. Is he a veteran? Sometimes there are assisted living places that give very big discounts to senior citizens who are veterans. It sounds as though your Dad is depressed from the stroke, the loss of his wife and the fact that his son is basically ignoring him (brother doesn't work and is home all day). It's a sad situation indeed.

Unfortunately, you live in another state (you didn't say how far and how long it takes to get to Dad) which makes YOUR anxiety even greater. You're in a tough position wanting to help someone who doesn't seem to want help. And I hear your anger/frustration in the words regarding your brother. It's hard to understand how siblings who were brought up in the same household could have totally different views about caring for their elderly parent(s). It's despicable that he lets his father continue to live like that and the fact that your brother's wife doesn't give a rat's ass either. He is one fall/illness from being admitted to a hospital and then to a nursing home. Unfortunately, sometimes that is what it's going to take to finally get him the help he needs. Should he fall and be taken to the ER and admitted to the hospital, you must tell the discharge planner of his living situation and that he no longer can properly take care of himself and your brother will not take care of him either. Tell the discharge planner, he lives alone and there is no one to take care of him (that's true). If you (and your brother must comply too) refuse to take him home, the hospital will be required to place him in a facility (they will not keep him in the hospital). Now that said, they can place him in a facility (nursing home) that has an "open bed" but it may not be the nicest one in his community. That's where you have to work with the discharge planner to try to place him in a fairly decent facility. When parents are stubborn and refuse to listen to reason, they will most likely refuse help from aides coming to the house.

My situation is also exasperating. My sister does NOTHING to help me in caring for our 86-year old mother in Mom's home of over 50 years. My 65-year old brother LIVES WITH OUR MOTHER and can't be bothered to push a vacuum around the house every now and then. He takes her out to eat but treats her like crap --- yelling at her (she wears 2 hearing aids) and demeaning her and basically being passive/aggressive when she asks him to do any little thing for her (like put out her garden chotchkeys in the Spring and taking them in in the Fall --- tough work, huh????) I end up going over there once a week to "take care of things" (clean, throw out bad food, etc) because no one else will do it and I refuse to let our mother live like that. Nice, huh? I try every day to "let go of the anger" towards my siblings but it is a never ending battle. Thank God I have a supportive husband. He is my God send. Otherwise, I would have stuck my head in an over a long time ago.

Anyway, you may also want to consult an elder law attorney (usually a free consultation) to find out what your options may be. 1karingdaughter -- I really feel for you doing this alone and I hope you will keep us posted about your progress. We are here for you to listen, support and hopefully give helpful advice. {{hugs}}

I'm sorry, I reread your original post saying your don't have extended family to watch your children. Also, I'm assuming your brother has a spouse. Does he? If so, what's her story about why she won't help your Dad?

I am so sorry you're going through this.
Before my mom moved to AL she got very remiss about walking her dog and keeping her place clean. I hired help 5 days a week and then moved her. Call APS; follow your gut.

Jo, its her father not mom..oops

Should APS be called?

Call the Health Dept and explain to them a home visit is needed. Take pictures and show them . Also How is the yard -and he lives in town if filth call City for this. Is your dad an alcoholic(not mention) they tend to care more for drink than cleaning.?*Sounds like you need to help take care of money-you want reports of how it is spent and receipts.:And that should include cleaning material. That way you'll know for sure .She could be pocketing it. Sorry to say- That's why they don't take care of him believing that there is not enough pay. ASK HER??? WHY HE ISN'T CLEAN TAKE A SURPRISE VISIT AND LEAVE KIDS IN CAR///

I think the comment that a POA is worthless if the person is deemed competent may not be true. The form from Minnesota that was filled out giving me the DPOA for my friends' finances and also the health care POA had boxes checked that gave me authority even if my decisions disagreed with their wishes. There were already signs of dementia when they agreed to this, but they were considered competent and living independently. Our friendship was over 40 years long and they trusted me implicitly. When their driver's licenses were revoked but they still drove, I called APS for advice and they sent someone out to evaluate them. I made sure I was there when she came and told them someone was worried and made the call and she was only doing her job. When she asked how they did their shopping and the husband mentioned driving like usual, she asked "You do know your licenses are revoked, right?" The husband replied "They are?" and sounded surprised. Later she asked him what he thought they should do with their car and he replied: "Sell it and get some money out of it." At that point I was able to get their car keys and move the car to another friend's garage until we could get it ready to sell. He had refused to give me the keys earlier when I asked, saying he had other plans.

She also told me about how long the wife would probably live with her frontal temporal dementia based on what she observed when evaluating her--"about 2 years." She was very accurate.

What a horrible situation for you! I agree with Jeanne that a house has degrees of filth! Sometimes its OK sometimes not. My own grandmother did not have the house cleaned for about 35 years as she said she was too old (at 60!) She lived to 95 and even then only died when she was moved in to a home. There were mice in her house - in the couch! but not rats. However she did wash herself and the kitchen and larder were reasonably OK. I was a child and did not know any better and she was a wonderful cook! The UK is cool so the bad pests were not in there. She never wanted anyone to change things. That is the difficulty with old people. Even my husband now!
What have you got to lose in getting outside help and advice? Medical and social. I think you will have to do this for your own peace of mind at least as well as to get your dad a more comfortable life and your brother will have to accept it. This situation cant be allowed to carry on which is what the other comments have basically said.
Please let us all know what happens. Thinking of you.

If he does haveca wife, I don't feel his father is her responsibility. Just as her parents aren't his. A helpmate on both sides and support but not responsible. Its nice when a spouse is there for you. Yes, she could maybe clean, cook but I wouldn't expect her to care for his father physically.

JoAnn, I don't think she should even be expected to cook and clean for her father in law. I can just imagine it, brother sitting at home having a beer and watching the game while she picks up after his father. Today most women work outside the home, if anyone should be popping over to clean up it is the brother, not his wife.

That is really hard. One thing that has helped me reason with some families is to think about parents with dementia like children. We wouldn't let our children make important decisions on their own. With our family we found that the parents were much worse than we realized. When they moved here we found they were hiding things well.

It is our responsibility as children to be sure family members are safe. If your siblings don't want to intervene in your dad's life hopefully they will let you do so. They should feel terrible if something happened to him or someone else that was avoidable. If you know of some things that he is not doing properly you know there are more of which you aren't aware.

I hope you guys can work it out.

LisaR, power of attorney is NOT guardianship. The idea is that is allows the elder to have help in executing their decisions - that is, the elder uses the POA person to accomplish what the elder wants. Power to compel the elder is guardianship, a very different thing.

POA and guardianship are difficult at the best of times. Over the pond we have the issue of capacity to make decisions too BUT we luckily have teams that recognise what that actually means for the individual. We also separate it from making choices.

As POA I have the power to act on her behalf as long as I act in her best interest. However we have two type of POA one for health and one for finance. I have one for finance but not for health. However she had dealt with that before she got dementia so we are OK there.

For instance while my Mum , theoretically and to her mind, made the decision to sell the house, we in the UK call that making a choice because she cannot enact it, cannot explain the consequences of it nor why she wants to move. So while she is deemed to have capacity to make a choice she cannot make a decision.

You might think that this would limit my ability to assist if she were living in filth/squalor but it doesn't. I would and could argue that I was spending money to ensure she was safe. That is any type of safe.

I have paid to havean injunction to stop my brother from accessing her because he would beg (and she would give him money) He would say it was for one thing but use it to buy drink/drugs. When I moved in he had taken over 10k from her for that very purpose. I do however take her to meet her friends and church fellows - she is not isolated

I have bought safety equipment and rails for the house

I could pay for cleaners out of her money - I don't because I do it

I could buy in care - I don't , partially because she doesn't want it and they don't do it well enough for me to consider it worth the money.

However if there is no money, then I could still do whatever I thought necessary to ensure she is safe from harm in any type of way and that includes children, insanitary conditions and herself.

From a couple family members and friends I know, if there is a change in the way they have normally been, whether living in a dirty house, not taking their meds and having health issues, not eating well, or emotional changes this is a clue that the person is having problems. Needing home care, assisted living, or nursing facility? Step back and see if this a change in how the person normally is living. We have to be alert to these signs that the person is not coping and needing help.

The suggestion to call APS, Anonymously, to request a "wellness check" on your Dad, is a good one.
Or, you can simply call the Sheriff's Office near him, and request a "Wellness Check on a frail elder you are very concerned about", describe the filth, the unreliable medicine dosing, worry about food/eating, etc., post-stroke.
They will go to the house, knock, ask to see the person, ask to see the house.
They will write an official report.
Reports like that, help build a case for placing Dad in a facility for his safety, or, for getting help to clean up the place, and help him age-in-place with some helps.
Dad probably won't like that...at least not at first.
But often, elders are just set-in-ways; once the place is cleaned up, they start feeling better. Having someone come in to clean, cook, take him to the store, etc., can help brighten his world--otherwise, he's sitting and festering.
They start looking forward to the Helper coming a few days per week, weekly, or so.
Those who say 'just let an elder sit in it' because that's what [it seems] they want...bad idea. Tragedies happen from that.
In some philosophies, it's good to allow someone their circumstances, when they seem to be digging in their heels to keep at it.
But, if none do anything about it, Especially when there are family members nearby who could, it starts hinting of elder neglect/abuse. Particularly if the elder is in filth.
OTH...that kind of thing could prevent Brother from getting control of Dad's estate...since he lives next door, and did nothing to clean it up and keep it cleaned. You're off the hook on that, because you're out-of-area.

_MESSY_ is one thing.
[lots of accumulated papers, piles of stuff, no order, drawers and cupboards hang open, etc. disorder, maybe dust, maybe dirty laundry piles and unclean kitchen/bathroom.]
_FILTH_ is another.
[rotten food around, food/trash/animal wastes on floors and furniture, dirty dishes/pans, dry/hardened food residues on stove, counters, floors, trash piles and bags, unsafe walking paths through house, rodent and bug infestations, cannot use kitchen or bathroom due to needed repairs and filth..
...soooo _not_ talking simple dust bunnies here....real filth!]

One _can_ be harmed by living in filth [needs intervention].
One is rarely harmed by living in disorder. [little need for intervention]

Elders who lose their spouse and have deteriorated since that time, are depressed.
They might also have an unspoken death wish, like: "if I don't take care of myself, I will die sooner and this will be over"...thoughts they will rarely voice to anyone, not even a counselor. One never knows what else they might be planning in their heads.

Some things to ask yourself:
===Is the person potential danger to themselves or others?
[this is tough; if they are, it's pretty sure they need intervention.]
===What has this person's spiritual belief system taught them about aging, death/dying?
[some beliefs see no problem allowing themselves to dwindle into death; and some will deliberately practice semi-starving, to help that along]
===Does the person have any goals left to achieve in this life?
[can use those as leverage to get a person up and doing a few things, often]

You're far away, with children.
That's at the top of YOUR priorities...kids come first, otherwise, their lives are potentially harmed for a lifetime. Dad and Brother have made it pretty clear, they could care less.
If you brought Dad to live with you, in his mindset, and your brother's, it'd be awful. You cannot do it all.
Sometimes, it's time to let-go and let others help.

If "the house got out of control and I can't manage to make it better", then Home Help, might be the thing.
[Brother telling you to come from out-of-state each weekend to cook his meals for the coming week, is unrealistic....
Instead, seek local churches that do elder-food deliveries, or Meals-on-Wheels to deliver meals!]

You are correct to prevent your kids visiting in grandpa's filth.
If the kids were teens, that might be different - could be a learning-op for them; but not younger ones.]

Home Health Aid via DSHS [welfare], if the person is low-income.
Or hire someone if he has funds...
AVOID depleting Your finances, because that puts YOU and your kids, at risk of becoming a State Aid recipients...
..unless you are financially well-off and have guaranteed stable income.
Some Family caregivers make that mistake, and invariably end up in bad situations.

If Dad refuses Home Help to get things cleaned up, there is a strong risk that if the Health Dept. gets wind of the filth, they'd condemn the house and put him in a facility. Some have used that as leverage to get compliance..but not if the person has slightest hint of suicidal-level depression.
Pretty sure he'd hate having his house condemned, given his described behaviors. But some rise to the occasion, and allow cleaners to come do their job, so they can stay.
The twist:
Doing it BEFORE officials see/document filth, means there's longer Grace-period to cleanup.
Waiting until officials tack up a condemned notice, will mean either very limited time to clean, or NO time to clean.

I dearly hope you can find just the right solution.
Please do not take on guilt or pressure from brother.
Your brother might also be really frustrated about the situation, living next door to a stubborn elder. He also might feel helpless to do anything about it. IDK..only you have a sense of that.

Please consider the various suggestions.
Keep you and your kids safe.
Then do what you can, reasonably, rationally, take care of Dad.