Follow
Share

My mother is 85-years-old and living alone in her home. Three years ago she signed a Durable POA with me as the agent. Unfortunately, she is a covert narcissist and is now showing signs of dementia. She refuses to believe she has a problem, and refuses cognitive testing, and anyone who suggests it she will attempt to destroy. The latest of the past two estate attorneys she has blown through knows she is not making the right decisions, yet keeps letting her run the show the way she wants to regardless of consequences. I was on one phone call with her and the attorney, the very first one. Right off the bat he says my mother is confused. I have not been on a call since and he seems only interested in speaking to her and charging her for consultations that have gone nowhere. Now he wants her to have him on retainer she told me. He also knows her former financial advisor put his name on investments as a beneficiary and he is unaware of what other things she is doing to herself and others. I warned her about this financial advisor for several years and she of course ignored me. She won't even report him for what he did but chooses to be hateful to most people around her, including me. Her doctor's office notified me she has two outstanding bills, only over $100 or so that she refuses to pay and wants to report the doctor for fraud. The doctor is totally innocent of anything. She is on a destruction course with nearly everyone, with the exception of people who will allow her to get her way. If someone signs a Durable POA, and you are trying to act in their best interest and it's blatantly apparent to all involved, how are they allowed to just ignore the DPOA? I find this mystifying. If anyone out there has had a similar experience or knows a way to avoid hiring yet another lawyer to be able to enforce a POA please let me know.

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Read your PoA document. It will tell you what conditions have to be met in order for your PoA authority to become activated. If it requires 1 or 2 medical diagnoses of cognitive impairment, you may need to "trick" her into a doctor's appointment (using a therapeutic fib). If you can't get this to happen then you may need to pursue guardianship, in which case her funds can be used to pay for this.

She sounds like she is not a narcissist but paranoid, which is a feature of dementia. If you never had a good relationship with her you are under no obligation to remain her PoA and can resign and let the chips fall where they may. I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this mess... many of us on this forum have been there and done that.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Without diagnosis you cannot enforce a POA. It involves at this point a court saying your mom is no longer competent.

See an attorney to discuss going for conservatorship action. A court then can appoint an examiner. Do this only if you feel your Mom is in DANGER, and confused. Given that you have had an attorney say he is noting confusion, that may be the attorney you should consult.

Do know that it takes a LOT for the court to take a citizen's rights from him/her. A LOT! Or to request examination for competency against a citizen's will. So do not take this action lightly.

Wishing you the best.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

I think someone explained that DPOA is immediate. Check your POA and see if its immediate or that one or two doctors are needed to put it in effect. But even if your POA is effective, does not mean you have control over your Mom. And it seems there is some Dementia involved, so you cannot reason with her.

Seems like Mom has a lot of money you need to protect. You may need to go for Guardianship. The cost can be taken from Moms money if you win. But ask a lawyer about this. You will have better control over Mom. You still will need to have her evaluated. Maybe a lawyer can help you with getting her to doctors. But with Guardianship you may be able to go after that Advisor.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
LittleFeather8 Jun 2023
Thanks for your reply. Had a look at the DPOA again for anything to do with incapacity. All is states is this, that she intends to hereby render unnecessary any future proceedings for a court appointed guardian in the event of temporary, permanent incapacitation or incompetency. It says she requests in the strongest possible terms that any court that may receive or act upon a petition for appointment of a guardian should deny such a petition so long as my agent is acting under this DPOA.
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
I’m going to assume that, like the majority of posters on this forum, you live in the USA. I’m not familiar with federal vs state laws (I am Canadian) but the fact that the financial advisor is beneficiary of her investments doesn’t sound right. (payout to estate, if no one else) FINRA works to prevent investment fraud. Perhaps they can advise you, if your mother is certain her financial advisor can do no wrong.

Many of us know how a covert narcissist mother never ever makes a mistake. <sarcasm>

https://www.finra.org/investors/need-help/helpline-seniors
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
LittleFeather8 Jun 2023
Hi Anabanana:
Yes, I am in the US. Thank you for the link. We managed to take his name off after it was found out, but that doesn't negate the crime. He has to be reported I agree. It is beyond belief why my mother continues to let him into her home and accept phone calls from him. This is a very confrontational person and for her to do that, there has to be a reason. That's why it is so important for people to keep and eye on these investment people. You don't have to be wealthy these days to be stolen from. There are lots of scams, this guy was one of those who give the free seminars with the free dinners. Don't know if they have them in Canada or not.
(0)
Report
Do you have a joint checking account with you listed as POA? If so you could pay the outstanding bills that you know/feel are accurate.I wouldn't advise putting anyone on retainer with her attitude. What have you been able to accomplish as her POA? If there is significant money involved I understand possible reticence to walk away but if not I would consider doing that as she is not at all appreciative and seems to want to wage war with everyone. You have to consider to what degree of stress it is worth continuing dealing with her.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
LittleFeather8 Jun 2023
Hi Riverale, it was suggested just that, about putting me on the accounts from the new financial company. My mother told me that day she went to the bank and only put me on the savings account, saying they couldn't do it for the checking unless I was in her state. I found out she didn't even add me to the savings account and it isn't necessary for me to travel to another state for the checking! She wants to retain control not only of the finances, but of people, and in doing so, she has alienated all but one of her neighbors, has threatened to fire 2 doctors for no reason, threatened to want to smack a doctor's office employee in the face if she was to see her again, but the guy who attempted to rip her off she still likes. The stress, yes, as you can imagine is horrible, calling me stupid and raging. I realized what narcissism was a few years ago. The worst thing is someone with that and dementia I have learned. What's worse is the public personality, the manipulative and fake one they use to get what they want. I really wish people would be able to report narcissist abuse as real emotional abuse, just like domestic emotional abuse gets reported. What have I been able to accomplish with the DPOA? Nothing permanent yet. Will know more next week hopefully when we meet with this attorney. I will see how it goes. The guy who attempted to rip her off knows more than I do. My Dad passed in 2017 and they had big problems. He only stayed with her for two reasons he told me, because he didn't want her to get half of his money and he stayed for me. My Dad had even made me his health surrogate and she hated it and til this day denies it. One of the worst things I ever heard my Dad say when he was sick in the hospital before he passed was that he didn't want my mother there, because she upset him and he called her a funeral hunter. Can you imagine hearing that?
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
YOU should report both the financial advisor for elder abuse and the attorney who knows what the financial guy did and has done nothing. He's also sketchy on the retainer bit, too. He can blow through her funds in a heartbeat with that, and he knows she has diminished capacity and shouldn't be making those decisions. We had a neighbor who had a sizeable estate and she was talked into having the lead partner of a firm on a retainer at $700/hour. She died virtually broke, and I blame that lawyer.

Get your own attorney and go for conservatorship unless you're willing to walk away completely.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

URGENT! Call Adult Protective Services about his (and anyone else's) unethical financial behavior. You can report anyone for corrupt behavior..............gather your proof.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Your POA can only be implemented at the point that your Mother, narcissist or no, is COMPLETELY incompetent to act in her own behalf and for her own safety.

This means that you need the full diagnostic workup of at least two MDs, one being a neuro-psyc, to say that your mother is incompetent under the law. This may require a court action.

Start with reading your document. It will tell you under what circumstances you can implement the POA. If it DOES NOT TELL YOU THIS then it is likely a worthless piece of paper.

See an attorney to guide you in this.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

You need to get a elder or family law attorney that represents you and go to court. I have a friend who had to do this because she was being taken advantage of financially. They gave my friend the ability to take over see her mothers finances and she moved her Mother to be near her
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

LittleFeather8: Perhaps you require guardianship.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter